Most of my In-Laws belong to regular ol' Churches of Christ. As you might assume by that, my wife was raised in such a church but has since become a Baptist. Here's the trouble: Her family takes on this condescending attitude about us not being saved because we're not Church of Christ. Obviously, that is an error. IMHO, it also demonstrates a 'spiritual pride' that isn't very Christ-like. Anyhow, my quesiton is this: Has anyone else here run into this sort of nonsense from CoC members? I just want to know if my In-Laws are a little 'off-keel' or if this is something they are taught.
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Church of Christ Question
- Thread starter DeadMan
- Start date
DeadMan, that is typical of the thinking of the more "conservative" brands of the Churches of Christ. Usually the more "liberal" ones do not think so. Among the more conservative churches, some believe that not only must one be baptized to be saved, but must also understand that one is being baptized to be saved in order to be saved!
west, a good portion of what is known as the "Church of Christ" is part of the Alexander Campbell restoration movement. The Boston CoC is a split from them, now generally known as International Churches of Christ. Other groups/denominations which are unrelated to the Stone-Campbell movement also use the name.
The Restoration movement pages might yield some helpful information.
west, a good portion of what is known as the "Church of Christ" is part of the Alexander Campbell restoration movement. The Boston CoC is a split from them, now generally known as International Churches of Christ. Other groups/denominations which are unrelated to the Stone-Campbell movement also use the name.
The Restoration movement pages might yield some helpful information.
menageriekeeper
Active Member
DeadMan, you and I must come from the same part of Alabama! Both Auburn fans and we have relatives who think we're heretical infidels on our way to hell because we don't believe membership in any one church will get us one inch closer to heaven!
You might want to be aware that there are two different denoms who use the words "Church of Christ" in thier titles.
The first is this group: http://church-of-christ.org/ which is what we generally think of as Church of Christ. These are the folks who think we will die in our sins.
The second is this group: http://hunterschapel.org/_wsn/page11.html, this link being to one of thier individual churches as they don't have a collective web site representing their denom.(that I can find anyway) This group is more baptisic in nature, although I'm a little iffy on the whole representing "the old Church of Christ that He(Christ) built on this rock, the oldest church" thing. My parents attend this kind of church of Christ. I've picked on them a bit about the church name as I wasn't allowed anywhere near folks from the Church of Christ when I was a kid. As IFB's they believed in being separate from this group.
Since my folks began attending a "Holy Church of Christ" I've gotten to know several others who attend there. They should really change their title to "Holy Baptist Church of Christ" since in practicality I can't find much difference between them and us.
As for dealing with the first group.....don't! Not unless you want an endless arguement. They are very set in their ways. They are taught this from the time they are children. I can remember discussing such things with my CoC classmates as a child. They certainly believe they are Christ's appointed church and the rest of us are poor rebellious sinners who need to join the "true" church. Eventually you can wear them down to where they will admit that you don't HAVE to be a member of thier church to be saved, but then they'll clarify things by telling you that you must do things the way their church does in order to be saved or you might just be deluding yourself.
The best thing to do with your condescending relatives is, show the love of Christ constantly! If you show them Christ, eventually they'll recognize you for what you are: a saved child of God. It'll take years of "being good" and ignoring the slights and KNOWING what you believe/where it can be found in scripture. The last depends on whether or not they'll even discuss such matters with you. My husbands CoC relatives won't and I was warned before I married into them(by my Baptist inlaws) not to initiate such a conversation. It only causes a "holy war" and division in the family. Of course the CoC part of the family rarely ever associates with the Baptist part. Kinda sad, isn't it.
You might want to be aware that there are two different denoms who use the words "Church of Christ" in thier titles.
The first is this group: http://church-of-christ.org/ which is what we generally think of as Church of Christ. These are the folks who think we will die in our sins.
The second is this group: http://hunterschapel.org/_wsn/page11.html, this link being to one of thier individual churches as they don't have a collective web site representing their denom.(that I can find anyway) This group is more baptisic in nature, although I'm a little iffy on the whole representing "the old Church of Christ that He(Christ) built on this rock, the oldest church" thing. My parents attend this kind of church of Christ. I've picked on them a bit about the church name as I wasn't allowed anywhere near folks from the Church of Christ when I was a kid. As IFB's they believed in being separate from this group.
Since my folks began attending a "Holy Church of Christ" I've gotten to know several others who attend there. They should really change their title to "Holy Baptist Church of Christ" since in practicality I can't find much difference between them and us.
As for dealing with the first group.....don't! Not unless you want an endless arguement. They are very set in their ways. They are taught this from the time they are children. I can remember discussing such things with my CoC classmates as a child. They certainly believe they are Christ's appointed church and the rest of us are poor rebellious sinners who need to join the "true" church. Eventually you can wear them down to where they will admit that you don't HAVE to be a member of thier church to be saved, but then they'll clarify things by telling you that you must do things the way their church does in order to be saved or you might just be deluding yourself.
The best thing to do with your condescending relatives is, show the love of Christ constantly! If you show them Christ, eventually they'll recognize you for what you are: a saved child of God. It'll take years of "being good" and ignoring the slights and KNOWING what you believe/where it can be found in scripture. The last depends on whether or not they'll even discuss such matters with you. My husbands CoC relatives won't and I was warned before I married into them(by my Baptist inlaws) not to initiate such a conversation. It only causes a "holy war" and division in the family. Of course the CoC part of the family rarely ever associates with the Baptist part. Kinda sad, isn't it.
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
The RCC claims they are the "one true church" the Church of God claims the same thing as does the Church of Christ.
Obviously - ALL serious churches/congregations claim that their own doctrinal views are correct and others are at best "less correct".
(Think about it - why belong to a church that claims that its doctrines are in error!)
The fact that some claim that only their Christian group is saved is dissappointing - but no more so than saying that all Jews are going to hell. To honestly believe that those outside "the group" are going to hell is not necessarily an issue of "pride".
IF you are on a boat and you view all the people splashing about in the freezing waters of the Atlantic as "doomed if not rescued" it is not necessarily a matter of "prideful coast guardsmen".
So while I do not agree with the Church of Christ from a doctrinal POV - I do not necessarily chalk up the differences to "pride on their part".
(That problem I reserve for Calvinists.)
In Christ,
Bob
Obviously - ALL serious churches/congregations claim that their own doctrinal views are correct and others are at best "less correct".
(Think about it - why belong to a church that claims that its doctrines are in error!)
The fact that some claim that only their Christian group is saved is dissappointing - but no more so than saying that all Jews are going to hell. To honestly believe that those outside "the group" are going to hell is not necessarily an issue of "pride".
IF you are on a boat and you view all the people splashing about in the freezing waters of the Atlantic as "doomed if not rescued" it is not necessarily a matter of "prideful coast guardsmen".
So while I do not agree with the Church of Christ from a doctrinal POV - I do not necessarily chalk up the differences to "pride on their part".
(That problem I reserve for Calvinists.)
In Christ,
Bob
Snitzelhoff
New Member
I would disagree that discussing Scripture with staunch Church of Christ-ists is an exercise in futility. After all, it was debate and discussion that sparked my own prayerful Bible studies which brought me out of the Churches of Christ, where I had been from childhood, and into the Baptist faith. I would also be careful, as BobRyan said, of attributing their words and actions to pride. Obviously, considering your church to have a monopoly on the truth can lead to pride, but a great many of them truly love those they see as lost.
Michael
Michael
menageriekeeper
Active Member
Well I won't argue that there may be some out there who have a heart for the lost but.....
When you are family and they see you as already having rejected the "truth", then you are chalked up as hopelessy lost and no longer bothered with. Sometimes you don't even have to be family. I have good CoC neighbors, one actually being a minister of music, who are to good to speak to me when I pass by. course being the good Christian I am, I can't let that go on so I always initiate contact by waving or just saying hello. They will speak back, but I'm ALWAYS the one to speak first.
That's not to say there aren't plenty of snooty Baptists out there. There are and then some, the little old lady in my church who continually tells visitors they can't sit on "her" pew being just one example. But, I haven't yet heard a Baptist say salvation rests on membership in a Baptist church.
I did once read, either in the local paper or in a CoC newletter that ended up in my mail, that salvation didn't depend on church membership. It went on to explain the CoC view that salvation begins with belief in Christ and is completed by baptism--by the proper church. Just who is the proper church, you guessed it, Coc.
Now some of this might be regional, just an Alabama thing or just a North Alabama thing. I wouldn't know, having not been exposed to CoC before living here.
When you are family and they see you as already having rejected the "truth", then you are chalked up as hopelessy lost and no longer bothered with. Sometimes you don't even have to be family. I have good CoC neighbors, one actually being a minister of music, who are to good to speak to me when I pass by. course being the good Christian I am, I can't let that go on so I always initiate contact by waving or just saying hello. They will speak back, but I'm ALWAYS the one to speak first.
That's not to say there aren't plenty of snooty Baptists out there. There are and then some, the little old lady in my church who continually tells visitors they can't sit on "her" pew being just one example. But, I haven't yet heard a Baptist say salvation rests on membership in a Baptist church.
I did once read, either in the local paper or in a CoC newletter that ended up in my mail, that salvation didn't depend on church membership. It went on to explain the CoC view that salvation begins with belief in Christ and is completed by baptism--by the proper church. Just who is the proper church, you guessed it, Coc.
Now some of this might be regional, just an Alabama thing or just a North Alabama thing. I wouldn't know, having not been exposed to CoC before living here.
I have no intentions of engaging them on this issue. And that won't be difficult as they NEVER talk to me about it, but only my wife when I'm not around. My wife says the reason for that is in their eyes, I'm not educated enough in the Scriptures to address them about it. But I digress.
Looks like a couple of you much more knowledgeable than me have covered everything. I just can't help but put my 2 yen in, though. 
Down in Smyrna, TN, I used to drive by a Church of Christ obviously of the conservative type. Their church sign was half of a baptistry! I always wondered, if you had to be baptized to get saved, why didn't they build a baptismal truck and take it around on visitation?
Down in Smyrna, TN, I used to drive by a Church of Christ obviously of the conservative type. Their church sign was half of a baptistry! I always wondered, if you had to be baptized to get saved, why didn't they build a baptismal truck and take it around on visitation?
One could join every "church" on this globe, and still go to hell.
Saying a prayer is a work. Walking an aisle is a work. Getting baptized is a work.
The Word of God says we are saved by grace through faith, and that not of ourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, least any man should boast, Eph. 2:8.
If one wants to join an assembly like the one Jesus started on the shores of Galilee, one must look for the faith and practice once for all delivered to the saints, Jude 3.
99.99% of the "churches" which exist in this world were started by a man/woman. Examples: Catholic--Constantine; Anglican--Henry VIII; Lutheran--Martin Luther; Methodists--Wesley Bros.; Latter Day Saints--Joseph Smith Jr.; Church of Christ-Scientist--Mary Baker Glover Patterson Eddy; CHURCH OF CHRIST--Alexander Campbell; Seventh Day Adventist--Ellen G. White.
Jehovah's Witnesses--Judge Rutherford.
There are dozens more; the point is made and tenable.
God is not the author of confusion.
Selah,
Bro. James
Saying a prayer is a work. Walking an aisle is a work. Getting baptized is a work.
The Word of God says we are saved by grace through faith, and that not of ourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, least any man should boast, Eph. 2:8.
If one wants to join an assembly like the one Jesus started on the shores of Galilee, one must look for the faith and practice once for all delivered to the saints, Jude 3.
99.99% of the "churches" which exist in this world were started by a man/woman. Examples: Catholic--Constantine; Anglican--Henry VIII; Lutheran--Martin Luther; Methodists--Wesley Bros.; Latter Day Saints--Joseph Smith Jr.; Church of Christ-Scientist--Mary Baker Glover Patterson Eddy; CHURCH OF CHRIST--Alexander Campbell; Seventh Day Adventist--Ellen G. White.
Jehovah's Witnesses--Judge Rutherford.
There are dozens more; the point is made and tenable.
God is not the author of confusion.
Selah,
Bro. James
menageriekeeper
Active Member
LOL Deadman, not educated enough in the scriptures, huh? They haven't tried that one on me, I guess because word has gotten around that I do know the scriptures. However I have experienced that same refusal to discuss religious issues.
Congrats on your team beating the Crimson Tide.
Perception is not always accurate. Your perception of their attitude may or may not be an accurate judgment. I have little doubt that your in-laws are sincere. I believe they are concerned about the souls of their daughter and son-in-law.
That aside, I have a question for you. Do you consider your in-laws to be right? Obviously you don't. Let me ask it another way, do you consider your in-laws to be saved?
If you do not, then it is your obligation to show them the right way. Use the bible to show them why you believe what you believe. Do you understand why they believe what they believe?
From your other statements, it appears that you have had some biblical discussions with them else their perception of you biblical knowledge was based on nothing.
Most members of the Church of Christ that I know are sincere in their beliefs. They believe only the bible and reject all human creeds. They want a command, approved example, or some type of necessary inference for all that is done in worship. I encourage you to study, and through the scriptures, show them where they are wrong.
Yes, I do believe they are saved. But I do not believe they are the only ones saved.
Believe it or not, they have NEVER discussed in depth any Biblical issues with me other than establishing whether or not I considered myself to be a Christian when I first met them. And trust on this, when thy first heard I was a member of a Baptist church the condescension started then and there. They say things to my wife like, "YOU know the truth. Why don't you just let him go to his church and you take the kids where YOU know YOU ought to be?" And I've heard her father say this when he didn't know I was listening on another phone! Then my wife ends up teling them off and there's more stress than there needs to be in our world. I've had to spend a lot of time in prayer about my attitude towards them. I can get hostile towards them at a moment's notice so I have to be careful Thursday while they are in my home. It'll be a challenge!
I hate to admit it, but I was somewhat rooting for the Tide, though I am not disappointed that Auburn won.Originally posted by DeadMan:
mman, thanks! Auburn made them look real bad! (And that's a bonus for me: The in-laws are all Alabama fans!)
I am in the opposite situation from you. I am a member of the Church of Christ and my wife was a baptist growing up. Religious discussions caused tension at first. I am going to be descriptive, not critical. Her family knew what they believed but couldn't really tell you why, other than their preacher said so and he is a good man and would not lie to them.
Basically, my attitude is if you ever want to discuss things of a religious nature, that's fine. I am willing to discuss anything. I am willing to explain why I believe what I believe and show you what the scriptures say, but in the interest of family harmony, I am not going to bring the topics up again.
I don't know your level of biblical knowledge or your comfort in showing others why you believe what you believe, but if a topic is brought up, bring out a bible and say can you show me why you believe that way and then show them why you believe what you do. Maybe you can both learn from each other. ---- Just a thought.
Have a happy Thanksgiving and I hope all goes well.
I will be happy to answer any question, in a public or private way, from a Church of Christ perspective, if that will help you in some way understand where your in-laws may be coming from. From some of the posts on this topic, I can see some predjudice, misinformation, and incorrect perceptions concerning the Church of Christ.
I am heading out of town shortly and will be off-line until next week. Again, Happy Thanksgiving and good luck.