Church Rules

[intojesus]

Okay,

I am really going to get into the hotseat with this one but its a valid question and one I am seeking valid answers too. I am divorced and remarried. I got pregnant at age 16 and was made to marry by my mother. When I divorced my husband I was not walking with the Lord and to be honest I don't even know if I was a Christian. There were many issues for the cause of my divorce but still I will not make excuses. I later re-married a man that had never been married. 5 years ago we both gave are lives to Christ. Under church rules my husband may not serve in a leadership(deacon position ect.) because he married a divorced women. The Bible is clear that if you marry a divorced women you commit adultery. But it was before he became a Christian. Okay there are others in the church that have married a women/man with a child that has never been married but they can serve in these positions because the women/man they married was never married. But they did have a child with another man/women. I thought there was Scripture that said if you lay with a person they are your husband/wife. Just curious on your thoughts. Please don't beat me up to bad, I just want to hear your thoughts and most important supporting Scripture.

 

[bapmom]

Into Jesus,

no, there's no Scripture that says that if you lay with a person they are then your spouse. The best example I can think of for this was when Jesus was speaking to the woman at the well. He said she had had 5 husbands, and the man she was with NOW was not her husband. So Jesus clearly saw a difference between just having physical relations and actually being married to them.

This is not speaking to what I think about the restrictions being placed on your husband because of your divorce. I don't know that I agree with that, but it is something that Im working through in my own head right now, so I really don't want to speak adamantly either way.

 

[James_Newman]

Deep subject IJ. I think that the interpretation that a man who has been divorced (for the right reasons) or a man who married a woman who was divorced (especially before becoming a Christian) cannot serve is not in keeping with the spirit of Christ. When the scripture states that the deacon or bishop must be the husband of one wife, I take that to mean that he may not be presently married to more than one woman. As bapmom points out, He did not tell the woman at the well that she had five husbands, He said she had no husband.

Joh 4:17 The woman answered and said, I have no husband. Jesus said unto her, Thou hast well said, I have no husband:
Joh 4:18 For thou hast had five husbands; and he whom thou now hast is not thy husband: in that saidst thou truly.

I think that the ministry might have caused some to be high-minded, and to be tempted to marry more than one woman. Often in cults, the leader is involved with many of the women. There is certainly a real danger of abusing that type of authority. So in my mind, the prohibition of polygamy would seem to make more sense than a blanket prohibition of divorced men from serving.

That said, unless there are other more serious issues in your church, I would recommend allowing the church to exercise authority in this matter, and just find other places to serve while trusting God to work all things for good. Thats my 2 cents.

 

[kubel]

Mat 5:31 It hath beene said, Whosoeuer shall put away his wife, let him giue her a writing of diuorcement.
Mat 5:32 But I say vnto you, that whosoeuer shall put away his wife, sauing for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoeuer shall marie her that is diuorced, committeth adulterie.

From what I understand, your marriage would only be valid in the eyes of man and his law, but not with God. Because it is not valid with God, it's considered adultery.

As far as the others that have kids before getting married:

Deu 22:28 If a man finde a damosel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found:
Deu 22:29 Then the man that lay with her, shall giue vnto the damosels father fifty shekels of siluer, and she shalbe his wife, because he hath humbled her: he may not put her away all his dayes.

Of course this is Law, but I think that's the verse your thinking of. Basically it's saying the two should do the right thing and get married.

I think the difference between your situation and their situation is that your adultery as a result of remarrying is a continual or reoccuring sin, whereas theirs was committed and they repented and never went back.

However, the requirements for both Pastor and Deacon are that they be "blameless". I'm no smartypants, but I think that would disqualify those others that you speak of as well.

1Ti 3:2 A Bishop then must be blamelesse, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behauiour, giuen to hospitalitie, apt to teach;
1Ti 3:10 And let these also first be proued; then let them vse the office of a Deacon, being found blamelesse.

But don't think because you have sinned that God can't still use you in other positions. We are all sinners saved by the blood. The positions of Pastor and Deacon have some tough requirements, and I could hardly find myself qualifying. Just pray and look for positions or places where God is leading you to.

 

[guitarpreacher]

IntoJesus,

Praise God that you and your husband gave your lives to Christ! That's awesome. The Bible says that when we accept Christ as our Savior, that we become brand new persons. The old stuff is passed away and everything becomes new. The Bible also says that when we confess our sins to God, He forgives us and "remembers them no more" So all those sins, which I believe would include divorce, adultry and anything else you might have done. (for me the list is almost endless) So the church is holding something against you that God doesn't even remember (assuming you've repented and sought His forgiveness)

Now, as to service- if you are looking for a title or a place of authority, forget it. That's not what serving Christ is all about. If you feel God is calling you to ministry - DO IT! The purpose of deacons was to care for the widows and orphans and the strangers that had needs. You can minister without the title. In fact, the title you get from the church, whether pastor, teacher, deacon, dishwasher or whatever, should be a confirmation of what's already taking place in your life. In other words, you don't minister because you are recognized, you are recognized because you minister. And while the church forms committees and debates your lack of qualifications, there are people who need a touch from God and God is counting on you to be there.

So there's the advise - do the work and don't worry about the titles.

(btw - I know of at least one church in central Arkansas that will give you all the ministry opportunities you can handle

)

 

[Rachel]

AMEN guitarpreacher!

 

[Michaelt]

good points gp...btw, I'm just down the road from you in Jacksonville!!

Good to see someone that is a neighbor on the forum!

 

[Bob Farnaby]

Itojesus, first a belated welcome into the Christian family, is just another example of how gracios God is. May you and your husband enjoy a lifetime of serving God. As gp said, don't worry too much about titles and official positions, just work on serving God.

My view, on reading what some in the early church had in their past (see some parts of Paul's letters) live as you should, and the local church should acknowledge the changed life and treat accordingly.

God Bless

Bob

 

[intojesus]

To be honest I have no problem with my husband or I not being able to serve in certain positions. For me that is just not an issue. My issue is this, a man that is with a women that has a child with another man and no she never married that man but lived with him. To me that is just the same as my husband marrying me a divorced women. So while yes it was a sin that my husband married me for both of us, why is it not a sin to be with someone who has a child or children who lived with them as being married. Why is it not a sin to marry him or her? Am I making sense? Here is an example:

Jane lived with Ed and had a child, they lived together for 4 years but never married. Later the relationship went sour so they broke up. Is it a sin to Marry Jane or Ed?

Peggy is married to John for 4 years and has a child, the marriage ends. We know it is a sin to marry John or Peggy right?

Is there a difference in the eyes of God?

 

[RightFromWrong]

I am totally with guitarpreacher on this one

very good points. Right On

 

[intojesus]

To the Guitar teacher,

I 100 percent agree with you but also although God forgives me, I know there are consequences for my sin. But I love to minister to people and need no title to do it. Wonderful post.

 

[intojesus]

Sorry I meant Guitar Preacher........

 

[Artimaeus]

Originally posted by guitarpreacher:
you don't minister because you are recognized, you are recognized because you minister.

While I don't agree with your conclusion, I couldn't agree more with that statement

And while the church forms committees and debates your lack of qualifications, there are people who need a touch from God and God is counting on you to be there.

Here is the part I have a problem with. Paul gives us qualifications for pastors and deacons for a reason. These are supposed to be examples to the flock, they have certain God given standrds to be lived up to. They are not positions for just ANY Christian who wants them. They are positions for Christians who possess the chracteristics that God says they should have. Do not twist them to fit yourself, twist yourself to fit them and if you can't twist (change) yourself sufficiently to fit them then you SHOULDN'T settle for "close enough".

It is not insulting. It is just a fact of life. I am not insulted that I am told I am too big to be a jockey, or too little to be a sumu wrestler, or too old to get into the movies at kid's price, or too young to get social security (OK, I'm happy about that one.). The point is that there are qualifications and we either fit or we don't. We are to accept graciously whatever God says but not necessarily what people say God says.

So there's the advise - do the work and don't worry about the titles.

Very good advice.

 

[gb93433]

I always like to go back to the question: Can a man who has murdered someone and never been divorced serve as a deacon? There are men who have been in prison for murdering someone who is now in ministry. Paul the apostle was one of those. If one goes back into the OT and notices the reason for a bill of divorcement it was so that the wife could remarry. It was not uncommon for a man to not givehis wife a bill of divorcement and yet force her out. Without a bill of divorcement she was not free to remarry. It was a way of holding it over her head. So Moses commanded a bill of divorcement. When the bill of divorcement was given she was free to remarry.

Adultery extends much deeper than simple marital adultery. Adultery extends to disobedience aginst God. Any disobeedience is adultery against God.
James calls the readers adulteresses. In the OT adultery is refered to as more than marital unfaithfulness.

If we want to get down to the historical precedence at the time it took a divorce to break a betrothal. A betrothal is much the same as the modern-day engagement. An engagement today is a verbal pledge or promise to marry the other person. For someone to breal the betrothal during the NT and OT there must be a legal divorce proceeding. So if we want to get right down to it then anyone who has broken an engagement has been divorced. A person who has broken an engagement has also broken a promise in the eyes of God no matter how wise or unwise that may have been.

Divorce covers much more than marriage but also betrothal.

 

[faithtrustbelief]

The church is sinning if it is keeping your husband from serving. 1 Timothy 3:2 states "husband of one wife" your husband has to meet the qualifications of a pastor, not you. This is big misconception among many baptist and other denominations.

Also one of the above commented on Matthew 5:32, you might want to read that one again, and think about it harder. What it is saying is if the divorced woman committed adultery in her first marriage and then another man marries her then the one who married her committed adultery.

Plus someone else brought up a great point. You were saved after your divorce. God wipes all those sins away.

Legalist are the ones that misinterpret these verses and then cause many good ministers to be put at the waist side.

Your husband is free to persue the office of a pastor if he feels called by God to do so. What you did in your past should not affect him at all.

 

[Soulman]

Quoted by Artimaeus: Here is the part I have a problem with. Paul gives us qualifications for pastors and deacons for a reason. These are supposed to be examples to the flock, they have certain God given standrds to be lived up to. They are not positions for just ANY Christian who wants them. They are positions for Christians who possess the chracteristics that God says they should have. Do not twist them to fit yourself, twist yourself to fit them and if you can't twist (change) yourself sufficiently to fit them then you SHOULDN'T settle for "close enough".

How many of us lived up to the standards you say before salvation? It is not in God's character to forgive all sin except one. Too many churches hold a marriage no matter what the circumstance against a person wanting to serve. Especially before salvation.

If God forgives the sinner and gives him eternal life, they are born again. New! There are NO restrictions except what some churches have legalistically imposed. Guitar Preacher said it best.

 

[tschau]

Maybe we should tell the people- before we lead them to Christ-
that the even if God forgives divorce, the church will never. You carry that sign on you for all times, and like in your case , you will be marked with this sign even if you were not christian and did not know better.

I think the chuch here is not very fair.

BUT
I know for sure that if God forgives, he forgives.
And in my eyes your husband has done nothing wrong.
I also believe that God has prepared for each of us good deeds we may do and so I am sure he has ways how your husband and you can bless others deeply.

 

[Soulman]

Besides. The bible teaches that we are forgiven. Completely forgiven. God sees us as new creatures not damaged goods. This is just another example of the baptist religion.

 

[buckster75]

hang on a second.
can this church not make their rules basted on how they interpret scripture? I may not agree with it but this is why there are denominations and how many different kinds of baptists.

 

[jshurley04]

I'm sorry, but I have a real problem with the idea that God is able to forgive and forget except in the area of divorce. If your husband wants to serve, then he should. I believe that if God forgives what happened before we are His child then we should as well. We bust people in the chops too much in the area of divorce. I will stop there and hope that this answer will encourage you.

One last thought, if God is leading you to serve, and your current church will not allow you to serve as God leads. Then I would suggest to begin to pray about moving to another church that God will lead you to. I am not saying leave period, but seek God in prayer and study and ask Him.