Alive in Christ
New Member
You are the one with "hit men" in your church ready to kill...as Almighty God admonishes.....
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Church Service Security & Guns
- Thread starter Greektim
- Start date
You are the one with "hit men" in your church ready to kill...as Almighty God admonishes.....
Alive in Christ
New Member
More food for thought....
Mt 5:44 But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.
Lu 6:27 But I say to you that listen, Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who abuse you. 29 If anyone strikes you on the cheek, offer the other also;
Lu 6:35 But love your enemies, do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return. Your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High; for he is kind to the ungrateful and the wicked.
Mt 5:39 But I say to you, Do not make use of force against an evil man; but to him who gives you a blow on the right side of your face let the left be turned. -Bible in Basic English
Lu 6:37 "Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven;
Lu 12:22 And he said to his disciples, "Therefore I tell you, do not be anxious about your life, what you shall eat, nor about your body, what you shall put on.
Mt 26:52 Then Jesus said to him, "Put your sword back into its place; for all who take the sword will perish by the sword.
Mt 7:12 In everything do to others as you would have them do to you; for this is the law and the prophets.
1 Peter 3.8 Finally, all of you, have unity of spirit, sympathy, love of the brethren, a tender heart and a humble mind. :9 Do not return evil for evil or reviling for reviling; but on the contrary bless, for to this you have been called, that you may obtain a blessing.
Ro 12.17-21 Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all. 18 If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all. 19 Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave room for the wrath of God; for it is written, "Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord." 20 No, "if your enemies are hungry, feed them; if they are thirsty, give them something to drink; for by doing this you will heap burning coals on their heads."
21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good .
1Th 5:15 See that none of you repays evil for evil, but always seek to do good to one another and to all.
Lu 6:42 Or how can you say to your neighbor, ’Friend, let me take out the speck in your eye,’ when you yourself do not see the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your neighbor’s eye.
Isa 31:1 Alas for those who go down to Egypt for help and who rely on horses, who trust in chariots because they are many and in horsemen because they are very strong, but do not look to the Holy One of Israel or consult the LORD!
Mt 5:44 But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.
Lu 6:27 But I say to you that listen, Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who abuse you. 29 If anyone strikes you on the cheek, offer the other also;
Lu 6:35 But love your enemies, do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return. Your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High; for he is kind to the ungrateful and the wicked.
Mt 5:39 But I say to you, Do not make use of force against an evil man; but to him who gives you a blow on the right side of your face let the left be turned. -Bible in Basic English
Lu 6:37 "Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven;
Lu 12:22 And he said to his disciples, "Therefore I tell you, do not be anxious about your life, what you shall eat, nor about your body, what you shall put on.
Mt 26:52 Then Jesus said to him, "Put your sword back into its place; for all who take the sword will perish by the sword.
Mt 7:12 In everything do to others as you would have them do to you; for this is the law and the prophets.
1 Peter 3.8 Finally, all of you, have unity of spirit, sympathy, love of the brethren, a tender heart and a humble mind. :9 Do not return evil for evil or reviling for reviling; but on the contrary bless, for to this you have been called, that you may obtain a blessing.
Ro 12.17-21 Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all. 18 If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all. 19 Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave room for the wrath of God; for it is written, "Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord." 20 No, "if your enemies are hungry, feed them; if they are thirsty, give them something to drink; for by doing this you will heap burning coals on their heads."
21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good .
1Th 5:15 See that none of you repays evil for evil, but always seek to do good to one another and to all.
Lu 6:42 Or how can you say to your neighbor, ’Friend, let me take out the speck in your eye,’ when you yourself do not see the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your neighbor’s eye.
Isa 31:1 Alas for those who go down to Egypt for help and who rely on horses, who trust in chariots because they are many and in horsemen because they are very strong, but do not look to the Holy One of Israel or consult the LORD!
Bronconagurski
New Member
Just because we are Christians does not mean they we let people walk all over us. When Jesus spoke in the temple and then said that Elijah responded only to the Gentile woman, and only a gentile leper, Namaan, was cleansed, they tried to get aholt (southern term for grab) of Jesus and throw him down a cliff. Alas, Jesus did not let them do that. Neither should we let people commit crimes against us without resistance. When common sense makes good sense seek no other sense. God gave us horse sense (another southern term) for a reason.
Greektim
Well-Known Member
Still not seeing much interaction on the main idea of the OP:
Is it right or wrong for a church to have armed guards at the entrance of a Sunday church service? In other words, is it ok for security guards (w/ their shotguns hanging in front of them in a threatening way) to admit or dismiss people as they come to church? Does that send the correct message? Who would you let in? Would visitors get in? If so, what is the criteria? If they look shady, do you turn them away for fear they could be robbers or some such? Is this Jesus' conception of believers congregating together???
Is it right or wrong for a church to have armed guards at the entrance of a Sunday church service? In other words, is it ok for security guards (w/ their shotguns hanging in front of them in a threatening way) to admit or dismiss people as they come to church? Does that send the correct message? Who would you let in? Would visitors get in? If so, what is the criteria? If they look shady, do you turn them away for fear they could be robbers or some such? Is this Jesus' conception of believers congregating together???
Tom Bryant
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't have church bouncers checking on people. I wouldn't even want to come in. It would set entirely the wrong idea of it. But there are all sorts of levels of security.
Is it ok to have their shotguns showing? I would say absolutely not. Even the President doesn't have that kind of obvious security.
Why do you feel you have to lie about what I said and do?
So you think Jesus was sinning when he commanded His disciples in Luke 22:36 "But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a sack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one"?
Interesting perspective. You claim to be "Alive in Christ" but also believe Christ sinned in His commands to the disciples.
Sometimes "see and be seen" is a good deterrent.
We may have a distorted perspective on the subject in view of the fact we live in one of safest countries in the world. When I was in Asia I saw a lot obviously armed guards at banks, shopping malls, gas stations, and even the gated community I stayed in while there. Kidnapping was a big business, especially of Americans because all Americans are thought to be rich. It's their country. They know the dangers and needs better than I.
I suppose we've been blessed to not have the level of violence/lawlessness that's occurring in Honduras right now. Let's pray it never gets like that here.
You have to admit though, the visible shotguns sends a message and serves as a deterent to potential robbers or kidnappers or whatever they're up to, and, the ones that come anyway probably really want to attend Church.
Bottom line to me is if the membership sees the neccessity of it and is in agreement with it who are we to judge?
Greektim
Well-Known Member
That is a semi-point... this church has the appearance of a major corporation than a church. It definitely does not convey "please come and worship with us and learn to walk worthy of the gospel with us."Sometimes "see and be seen" is a good deterrent.
We may have a distorted perspective on the subject in view of the fact we live in one of safest countries in the world. When I was in Asia I saw a lot obviously armed guards at banks, shopping malls, gas stations, and even the gated community I stayed in while there. Kidnapping was a big business, especially of Americans because all Americans are thought to be rich. It's their country. They know the dangers and needs better than I.
Greektim
Well-Known Member
The visible shotguns certainly send a message. And that is another point. And I see the reason why. But aren't the people we are keeping out the very same people we are to be reaching??? So in essence we are pushing them away when we do this (we as in this church I'm referring to)?I suppose we've been blessed to not have the level of violence/lawlessness that's occurring in Honduras right now. Let's pray it never gets like that here.
You have to admit though, the visible shotguns sends a message and serves as a deterent to potential robbers or kidnappers or whatever they're up to, and, the ones that come anyway probably really want to attend Church.
Bottom line to me is if the membership sees the neccessity of it and is in agreement with it who are we to judge?
But I agree, this church is autonomous to do what it likes. Just wanted to hear other perspectives on this.
Alive in Christ
New Member
Tcassidy...
You posted..
And exactly WHO did Christ kill with that sword?
And I find it unfathanable that you would even entertain the idea that our Lord would sin.
But then you advocate killing a person in church when God says...
..So I guess anything is possible.
You posted..
And exactly WHO did Christ kill with that sword?
And I find it unfathanable that you would even entertain the idea that our Lord would sin.
But then you advocate killing a person in church when God says...
..So I guess anything is possible.
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I always thought the Biblical, if not Baptist definition of church was "an assembly of believers". All this talk of the appearance of weapons "keeping people out" makes me wonder.
We have several men in our church that carry. One is an FBI agent. Of course they don't carry openly, but it is well known to the church members that they are armed.
We also employ off-duty police officers as security mainly for the parking lots, but they are available if a "situation" should arise.
We have several men in our church that carry. One is an FBI agent. Of course they don't carry openly, but it is well known to the church members that they are armed.
We also employ off-duty police officers as security mainly for the parking lots, but they are available if a "situation" should arise.
Tom Bryant
Well-Known Member
Obviously each church can make their own decisions and we can think they are right or wrong, but can't do a thing to change them. But I can only answer for my area. We won't have a visible armed presnce in the church. But we do have enough people packing that someone would forcibly stop an armed robbery or violence against our people.
Greektim
Well-Known Member
No... the word simply means an assembly. Granted, in this case it is an assembly of believers. But hopefully the gospel is being preached for the occasional visitor. But if I can't bring in a vagabond through the gates b/c he might be a thief... what does that say about that church?
Again... I'm not talking about carrying weapons to church. I'm talking about security guards openly displaying their weapons at the entrance and admitting or dismissing people upon arrival.
Ahh obviously that is different if they are being used as "bouncers".
Alive in Christ
New Member
wow. just wow :tear:
No- PRAISE God!
I didn't you did. You implied that Jesus lied when he commanded the disciples to arm themselves.
Nobody. He commanded His disciples to arm themselves.
I didn't. You did.
Now you are just lying. I never advocated killing anyone. Shame on you!
Yes, anything except you actually understanding the bible. There is a HUGE difference between killing and murder. The command in the 10 commandments is that we not commit murder. In fact killing was often commanded in the OT.
Although you will probably not admit that the commandment should read "You shall do no murder." You will insist "kill" is the right word. Of course, Jesus translated it "murder" in Matthew 19:18 but you think He was a liar, so . . . .