Churches

[Luke2427]

Nobodys looking for perfect Tom....just real.

Well, frankly, there's very few of those comparatively speaking as well. Most churches in America absolutely STINK.

I honestly prefer atheism to the kind of Christianity which permeates our culture.

The best thing one can do is try to find a church with SOME real people in it and worship with them, or move to where one is or be sent out from a good church to go start one of your own.

 

[salzer mtn]

That may be but it does not change the fact that the Body of Christ is an assembly of believers- it is not a believer out there worshiping God on his lonesome.

What old saints of God did in them good old days is not worth two cents compared to what the Word of God says.

Foreign to the Word of God is the idea of an individual Christian who refuses to assemble with other believers.

Let me ask you this question Luke. Would you go to any church that did not preach the truth ? Maybe in your area grace churches are on every street corner but not so where I live. I guess I was typing the question as you were typing the answer above.

 

[annsni]

Tonight we had our first prayer/worship service at our new building - that is still waiting for the building permit to allow us to build. So we stood in the bare warehouse and worshiped God. There was ministry happening here due to situations with individuals that were in attendance and we dedicated this space - and ourselves - to service for the Lord.

This picture was taken in a break in the worship (so I was able to jump up from the computer to grab the picture). This is about 1/3 of our congregation who was able to come out on a rainy Wednesday night (when MANY of them are back at our home church for the Wednesday night activities). It was a great night and I pray God was glorified. THIS is what I see when I think of "church".

 

[Luke2427]

Let me ask you this question Luke. Would you go to any church that did not preach the truth ? Maybe in your area grace churches are on every street corner but not so where I live. I guess I was typing the question as you were typing the answer above.

Brother, I assume by "truth" and "grace churches" you mean churches that preach reformed theology. Yes, I would go to a church that is Arminian if that is all that is available to me.

No, I would not go to a church that literally and actually undermined the Gospel of Christ.

 

[Luke2427]

tonight we had our first prayer/worship service at our new building - that is still waiting for the building permit to allow us to build. So we stood in the bare warehouse and worshiped god. there was ministry happening here due to situations with individuals that were in attendance and we dedicated this space - and ourselves - to service for the lord.

This picture was taken in a break in the worship (so i was able to jump up from the computer to grab the picture). This is about 1/3 of our congregation who was able to come out on a rainy wednesday night (when many of them are back at our home church for the wednesday night activities). It was a great night and i pray god was glorified. This is what i see when i think of "church".

wonderful!!!!

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Brother, I assume by "truth" and "grace churches" you mean churches that preach reformed theology. Yes, I would go to a church that is Arminian if that is all that is available to me.

No, I would not go to a church that literally and actually undermined the Gospel of Christ.

Been there & done that .....they start by asking you why you see things the way you do & why ya still playing around with that Calvinistic horse manure. Then they try to make you look like an apostate because of how you view scripture. I would strenuously say NO to that suggestion. And think about this a minute Salzer, is that the way you want your children taught scripture? NO NO NO!!!!!

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

wonderful!!!!

And I see a bunch of people staring at a wall. Tell me how thats a church. What do you do for the community? How do you help the poor & destitute? How bout those thrown outa work? What word of hope do you have to offer those workers who see no meaning in their life? What word of hope have you got for all the women who bear children and, day after day, say, what is the meaning of this life? Again are you out there touching the flesh of God, seeing Christ in the poor, the disenfranchised, the destitute? How bout those people in hospice, how bout those people being foreclosed on & loosing their homes, how bout those people who go to bed hungry, how bout those people desperate & close to suicide, how bout those people?!? Do you see Christ in them & are you willing to get outa your comfort zones to touch the flesh of God, even to touch the flesh of one another and understand what God is calling us into?

Until then, dont tell me about your church......Im not interested.

 

[annsni]

And I see a bunch of people staring at a wall. Tell me how thats a church. What do you do for the community? How do you help the poor & destitute? How bout those thrown outa work? What word of hope do you have to offer those workers who see no meaning in their life? What word of hope have you got for all the women who bear children and, day after day, say, what is the meaning of this life? Again are you out there touching the flesh of God, seeing Christ in the poor, the disenfranchised, the destitute? How bout those people in hospice, how bout those people being foreclosed on & loosing their homes, how bout those people who go to bed hungry, how bout those people desperate & close to suicide, how bout those people?!? Do you see Christ in them & are you willing to get outa your comfort zones to touch the flesh of God, even to touch the flesh of one another and understand what God is calling us into?

Until then, dont tell me about your church......Im not interested.

Wow - you seem to know so much about us. Why do you assume that we're doing nothing?

You can't see from that one picture all of the ministry that has happened here. Know that at this moment, in this photograph, one woman there who is in the front raising her hands was JUST dumped by her fiance (and this is yet another ministry opportunity God has laid before us). Another person is a recovering alcoholic and praises God with such utter abandon that it's a testimony to ME. Another is a single mom who we've worked on her home quite a bit - even running over to her house in the middle of our small group because she had a flood and we ended up singing praise songs while we were wet/dry vacuuming her basement - and fixing other stuff that we didn't know about until we got there. Oh and it was one couple's 30th anniversary that night and that is how they spent it.

Right next door to us in this new building is DDI - which is a day respite place for special needs adults and we will be meeting with them to see how we can minister to them. We will also be going to the other businesses around us to see how we can minister to them as well. We may just start out with bringing them lunch.

We have just had the ceiling painted in this warehouse this week and there were some issues of it not being cleaned up well issues because of the way it was handled by my husband, the guy from the company told him "You know, when you open here, let me know. I want to know more."

There is a ministry nearby (about 20 minutes from here) who DAILY feeds many homeless or destitute and we've been working with them to entertain the kids while they are waiting on long lines to get food (they have hundreds show up each day) with their parents (and the parents are so grateful). I also found a group of people who crochet and knit and had a case of hats/scarves/mittens sent over to them in addition to buying out the entire hat/scarf/mitten/winter coat rack at Old Navy. Now that we know that there is this kind of need, we'll definitely be doing more with them and I'm looking to see if any of our people in the whole church know how to knit or crochet for this project and we'll ask people to donate yarn for the cause.

We will also be in touch with the social worker at the local elementary school again once we're in (because we're not currently meeting in this community) to see how we can minister to the kids who need it the most. We'd love to be able to give those kids who have free lunches backpacks filled with food to take home on the weekend. We have to work out the details with the school though. We've already been dealing with another elementary school in the area and have provided Thanksgiving baskets and Christmas gifts to their neediest kids.

Finally, once this place is built and opened, we will hopefully be offering free art classes to the community (my daughter is a certified art teacher and the district dropped art due to budget cuts) and maybe after school tutoring if we can get it set up. We have already used it for a lot of counseling ministry because it seems that God is leading people to us who are broken. It's been wonderful to have a location to meet them at other than Starbucks! We currently meet in a hotel and that's just not conducive to talking someone down from a drug addiction.

So yes, in this case, this is a bunch of people worshipping God in a warehouse and spending 2 hours in prayer for specific needs and general needs for our congregation and community. But we already reach further than that. About 1/3 of our congregation was not walking with the Lord when we started 3.5 years ago.

Is that good enough?

Oh and apparently you can't see in the picture the fact that they are not staring at a wall but the words to the song we were singing.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Wow - you seem to know so much about us. Why do you assume that we're doing nothing?

You can't see from that one picture all of the ministry that has happened here. Know that at this moment, in this photograph, one woman there who is in the front raising her hands was JUST dumped by her fiance (and this is yet another ministry opportunity God has laid before us). Another person is a recovering alcoholic and praises God with such utter abandon that it's a testimony to ME. Another is a single mom who we've worked on her home quite a bit - even running over to her house in the middle of our small group because she had a flood and we ended up singing praise songs while we were wet/dry vacuuming her basement - and fixing other stuff that we didn't know about until we got there. Oh and it was one couple's 30th anniversary that night and that is how they spent it.

Right next door to us in this new building is DDI - which is a day respite place for special needs adults and we will be meeting with them to see how we can minister to them. We will also be going to the other businesses around us to see how we can minister to them as well. We may just start out with bringing them lunch.

We have just had the ceiling painted in this warehouse this week and there were some issues of it not being cleaned up well issues because of the way it was handled by my husband, the guy from the company told him "You know, when you open here, let me know. I want to know more."

There is a ministry nearby (about 20 minutes from here) who DAILY feeds many homeless or destitute and we've been working with them to entertain the kids while they are waiting on long lines to get food (they have hundreds show up each day) with their parents (and the parents are so grateful). I also found a group of people who crochet and knit and had a case of hats/scarves/mittens sent over to them in addition to buying out the entire hat/scarf/mitten/winter coat rack at Old Navy. Now that we know that there is this kind of need, we'll definitely be doing more with them and I'm looking to see if any of our people in the whole church know how to knit or crochet for this project and we'll ask people to donate yarn for the cause.

We will also be in touch with the social worker at the local elementary school again once we're in (because we're not currently meeting in this community) to see how we can minister to the kids who need it the most. We'd love to be able to give those kids who have free lunches backpacks filled with food to take home on the weekend. We have to work out the details with the school though. We've already been dealing with another elementary school in the area and have provided Thanksgiving baskets and Christmas gifts to their neediest kids.

Finally, once this place is built and opened, we will hopefully be offering free art classes to the community (my daughter is a certified art teacher and the district dropped art due to budget cuts) and maybe after school tutoring if we can get it set up. We have already used it for a lot of counseling ministry because it seems that God is leading people to us who are broken. It's been wonderful to have a location to meet them at other than Starbucks! We currently meet in a hotel and that's just not conducive to talking someone down from a drug addiction.

So yes, in this case, this is a bunch of people worshipping God in a warehouse and spending 2 hours in prayer for specific needs and general needs for our congregation and community. But we already reach further than that. About 1/3 of our congregation was not walking with the Lord when we started 3.5 years ago.

Is that good enough?

Oh and apparently you can't see in the picture the fact that they are not staring at a wall but the words to the song we were singing.

Thats what I asked you to do......show me that you are active. Unfortunately, Im not seeing it in my community so Im hopeful that other places have that going on. Honestly, that is what keeps me looking, knowing that there are still some active in ministry & going out to people.

 

[annsni]

Thats what I asked you to do......show me that you are active.

But why did I have to go explain it all? Why must you immediately pin someone to the wall and scream "Show me!" Why not just be supportive of a struggling and growing church community? You've seen me post here before and I just may start a thread soon about all that's been going on and seeking prayers for God's continued wisdom and guidance - and favor. But why must you always jump on churches for not doing exactly what YOU want them to do or ASSUMING they are not doing what YOU want them to do? Why the hostility against God's body?

 

[go2church]

And I see a bunch of people staring at a wall. Tell me how thats a church. What do you do for the community? How do you help the poor & destitute? How bout those thrown outa work? What word of hope do you have to offer those workers who see no meaning in their life? What word of hope have you got for all the women who bear children and, day after day, say, what is the meaning of this life? Again are you out there touching the flesh of God, seeing Christ in the poor, the disenfranchised, the destitute? How bout those people in hospice, how bout those people being foreclosed on & loosing their homes, how bout those people who go to bed hungry, how bout those people desperate & close to suicide, how bout those people?!? Do you see Christ in them & are you willing to get outa your comfort zones to touch the flesh of God, even to touch the flesh of one another and understand what God is calling us into?

Until then, dont tell me about your church......Im not interested.

You are being a jerk. Annsni has been nothing but clear and accommodating to you, responding when most lost interest in what you had to say. Perhaps the biggest problem in your inability to find a church that meets all your criteria is actually you.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

But why did I have to go explain it all? Why must you immediately pin someone to the wall and scream "Show me!" Why not just be supportive of a struggling and growing church community? You've seen me post here before and I just may start a thread soon about all that's been going on and seeking prayers for God's continued wisdom and guidance - and favor. But why must you always jump on churches for not doing exactly what YOU want them to do or ASSUMING they are not doing what YOU want them to do? Why the hostility against God's body?

But why why why....ha ha ha, Because most of you are not Gods body! Thats why and it is apparent by the poor state of most churches today. And its not me calling churches to supporting Gods body...its Christ. So when I ask....no not ask but demand to see proof that's where the rubber meets the road. You should be happy you have an answer that displays that you actually can get out of the way and do Gods work and not just be another meeting house for x Catholics who want to feel good about themselves every Sunday cause they Go To Church. And personally, my search has never been for a perfect church but one that goes the extra step to reach out and touch the flesh.....that's very rare these days. And I'm not talking about giving turkeys out for thanksgiving. Thats generally what I hear when I ask the question about what you "the church " do for the community. So I hope that answers YOUR question.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

You are being a jerk. Annsni has been nothing but clear and accommodating to you, responding when most lost interest in what you had to say. Perhaps the biggest problem in your inability to find a church that meets all your criteria is actually you.

ROFL......oh Gaud that's funny. You calling me a jerk....hahahaha

Ain't my criterion....its Gods ......so why don't you go to church this Sunday and ask him about it.....leave me out off it though. BTW, you do know what opinions are like don't you and you certainly are/have one.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Well, frankly, there's very few of those comparatively speaking as well. Most churches in America absolutely STINK.

I honestly prefer atheism to the kind of Christianity which permeates our culture.

The best thing one can do is try to find a church with SOME real people in it and worship with them, or move to where one is or be sent out from a good church to go start one of your own.

Thats a pretty radical view don't you think...stating a preference for atheism. I don't even go there and I consider myself quite radical. But I know where you are going with this.

Now as to your other suggestions....you throw them out quite casually. Why would someone want to retreat from a Godless area just to go to church? What's the challange in that? What about staying and fighting....it can be done. Do you know how many disinfanchised (sic) and wayward Christians there are out here...there are many and I constantly get the same story from them. The common story is always that that they got sick of the BS, sick of the hypocracy, sick of the endless guilt trips. Many many have been hurt by the churches and so now they wont go back. Add to it those apostate churches that are lifeless dead things yada yada and we have most choosing to stay put vs attending. You know, those people could be cultivated by the right guy.

 

[annsni]

But why why why....ha ha ha, Because most of you are not Gods body! Thats why and it is apparent by the poor state of most churches today. And its not me calling churches to supporting Gods body...its Christ. So when I ask....no not ask but demand to see proof that's where the rubber meets the road. You should be happy you have an answer that displays that you actually can get out of the way and do Gods work and not just be another meeting house for x Catholics who want to feel good about themselves every Sunday cause they Go To Church. And personally, my search has never been for a perfect church but one that goes the extra step to reach out and touch the flesh.....that's very rare these days. And I'm not talking about giving turkeys out for thanksgiving. Thats generally what I hear when I ask the question about what you "the church " do for the community. So I hope that answers YOUR question.

You know, you can't find a perfect church, you are hostile to all churches around, you have no desire to start a church. I wonder what is happening in your soul that you are so hostile to God's people. What battle is raging in there?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

You know, you can't find a perfect church, you are hostile to all churches around, you have no desire to start a church. I wonder what is happening in your soul that you are so hostile to God's people. What battle is raging in there?

You know nothing about me.... nice try. :laugh:
Must bother you though when your ego doesn't get stroked. Tough.

 

[pinoybaptist]

Do you consider Pennsylvania to be the south? Personally I could not tell you about "The South " but from my experience, I have witnessed Pennsylvania Coal Miners and family's meeting in prayer. Also know of a Pa farmer who gave thanks each morning, midday & evening as he plowed his fields with his plowhorses and milked his cows.

sounds like the stuff that the ol' America was made of, when a hardware store owner takes the word of a personally known Christian that he will have his money when the other comes back, and, don't matter if it took six months, a year, or two years, sure enough when the other guy comes around he gets paid.....with interest, even.

 

[pinoybaptist]

been reading the thread tryin' to get heads and tails of it and all I can say at this moment is, a church you go to is where your spirit agrees with that church's doctrine and if it don't, well, time to move on, and if it does, then time to sink root.

and also, the liberal use of the definite article "THE" is amusing.
like when somebody says 'the Baptist church is the real deal' because if it is then Jesus created a smorgasbord of doctrines, practices and values and a 'bride' that couldn't decide if she wants white, pink, green, or what for a veil.

"A" church would be more appropriate.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

You know nothing about me.... nice try. :laugh:
Must bother you though when your ego doesn't get stroked. Tough.

been reading the thread tryin' to get heads and tails of it and all I can say at this moment is, a church you go to is where your spirit agrees with that church's doctrine and if it don't, well, time to move on, and if it does, then time to sink root.

and also, the liberal use of the definite article "THE" is amusing.
like when somebody says 'the Baptist church is the real deal' because if it is then Jesus created a smorgasbord of doctrines, practices and values and a 'bride' that couldn't decide if she wants white, pink, green, or what for a veil.

"A" church would be more appropriate.

Good point:thumbs:

 

[go2church]

ROFL......oh Gaud that's funny. You calling me a jerk....hahahaha

Ain't my criterion....its Gods ......so why don't you go to church this Sunday and ask him about it.....leave me out off it though. BTW, you do know what opinions are like don't you and you certainly are/have one.

Not tough enough to actually use the word you infer? Not surprised