Civilian Victims Of USA Aerial Bombing

[poncho]

I didn't say the US government attacked itself. I said the government (or a rogue faction) may have had a hand in it.

There are thousands of books in print on the subject now. Colonel Donn de Grand pre has three very good books in print. He's the guy that gave the 11 page report to the joint chiefs of staff on 911.

Colonel Donn de Grand pre

Zbigniew Brzezinski,

Couselor, Center for strategic and International Studies.

Professor of American Foreign Policy, John Hopkins University.

National Security Adviser to Jimmy Carter 1977-81.

Trustee and Founder of the Trilateral Commission.

International adviser of several major US/ Global corporations.

Associate of Henry Kissenger.

Under Ronald Reagan-member of NSC-Defense Dept. Commission on Integrated Long Term Strategy

Past member, Board of Directors, The Council On Foreign Relations.

Wrote a book called the "Grand Chessboard" that could be veiwed as the battle plan for the "war on terror".
The Grand Chessboard

Then you have the Project For A New American Century. (interesting names involved with it) Rebuilding America's Defenses.
Rebuilding America's Defenses.

And a whole mountain of evidence carried in the back pages of newspapers. Here in archives. Pay no attention to the comments made here just read the clippings from the "mainstream media".

INFOWARS

Prison Planet

Congressman Ron Paul and his Neo-Conned speech. Among other of his speeches.
Neo-Conned

Then there are the accounts of other Republics through out history that have been overthrown with "manufactured Terror".

Rome and Germany come to mind right off.

Motive? Greed. (Billions and Billions) in defense contracts and energy assets stolen from other countries lined up like dominos in "the Grand Chessboard".

<a href="http://www.hereinreality.com/carlyle.html" target="_blank">Meet
The Carlyle Group</a>

Motive? Power. Raise up a police state to protect the power they have now. Thanks to 15 decades of non-stop and non-sunsetted "emergency war powers acts". Attack free speech and silence any dissent among the "chattel". Take a look at the new "freespeech zones" in Boston and Miami and other places in America.

Motive? Control. Patriot Acts I, II, and all the other freedom restricting laws now on the books that never would have passed without the surprize shock of 911.

Or Clintons crime package that he was having trouble getting passed until the OKC bombing.

I'm goin to stop now.

 

[USN2Pulpit]

Were there two shooters on the grassy knoll?

 

[poncho]

1) Yes, there are holes in it. Even though they should be investigated, they should be investigated in an objective manner. Loss of objectivity will always taint the result of an investigation-as we have daily proof on the news media (both right and left).

USN2Pulpit

 

[USN2Pulpit]

Yes? I'm here...

Perhaps you didn't understand the intent of my question. It pertains to you, not the situation, so I'll come right out and ask:

Are you a conspiracy theorist?

 

[poncho]

It depends on what your definition of conspiracy theorist is. Do you mean some one that believes in ghost stories, UFOs and little green men from Mars? My answer no.


Or, do you mean someone that finds the "official story" of 911 hard to believe on such scant evidence as CNN's say so? My answer yes.

Now a question for you...are you being objective?

 

[Pennsylvania Jim]

It's so easy to say that innocents are bound to die in a war.

In a war, soldiers on both sides die. Someone here has said "everyone dies anyway". Do you know what war is like?

Have you ever seen a soldier weeping while he carries the bloody rib cage ow what was his friend a few minutes ago?

Have you ever seen a human being disappear in a vapor of blood and flesh?

Have you ever experienced the loss of you family, coldly referred to as "collateral damage"?

Do you know that being "gutshot" is one of the most painful deaths that one can experience?

War is occasionally necessary, but should be a last resort in actual defense of home and country (the land on which we live, not the paper on which big busniess contracts are written).

The tragic, bloody mess in Iraq is not necessary, and it has caused untold grief and heartbreak on both sides.

A "pastor" on this board has repeatedly defended it by noting that the number of casualties in "relatively small" compared with Vietnam or WWII.

God help us.

 

[church mouse guy]

I was taking this thread seriously until someone said that he did not believe in UFOs. I myself believe in UFOs.

 

[Artimaeus]

I am a senior citizen..

During the Clinton Administration I had an extremely good and well
paying job. I took numerous vacations and had several vacation homes.
Since President Bush took office, I have watched my entire life change
for the worse. I lost my job. I lost my two sons in that terrible Iraqi
War. I lost my homes. I lost my health insurance. As matter of fact I
lost virtually everything and became homeless.

Adding insult to injury, when the authorities found me living like an
animal, instead of helping me, they arrested me.

I will do anything that Senator Kerry wants to insure that a Democrat is
back in the White House come next year. Bush has to go.

I just thought you and your listeners would like to know how one senior
citizen views the Bush Administration. Thank you for taking time to read
my letter.

Sincerely,

Saddam Hussein

 

[USN2Pulpit]

Originally posted by poncho:
Now a question for you...are you being objective?

Absolutely...Right now, I believe it was Al Quaeda's plan and execution. It will take more than speculation...it will take rock-solid evidence to get me to believe anything else.

Let me ask you (and anyone else) something:

Was there really any doubt who was at the bottom of these attacks? What does the record say? Time after time the world has had to endure attacks from Islamic terrorists. They are simply being consistent. Even after the first plane hit, and especially after the second, I (like almost every other sensible person) thought "Islamic terrorists." Your going to have to come up with something a little better than website links to get anyone to believe Dr. Stanley Monteith’s theories. Perhaps if you think our government are such criminals and our citizens are such dumb sheep, you may wish to rethink your allegiance to this country and cast in your lot where you believe there is more justice.

 

[church mouse guy]

Artimaeus, you took me in all the way to the signature on the bottom of the letter! That is a great letter!

 

[mioque]

Artimaeus

 

[poncho]

USN2Pulpit,

I have been asked to provide (rock solid) evidence to back up everything I say on this board (with few exceptions) and I have tried to just this as best I can.

Yet when I ask folks to provide their (rock solid) evidence that supports their belief...I get the same ole reply...move to another country...conspiracy theorist! A weak defense of your position on this subject. Is this the best you can come up with?

This is not evidence or objectivity. I think maybe it is because of a fear that you have to little evidence to support your position.

 

[poncho]

"I (like almost every other sensible person) thought "Islamic terrorists."

So your thoughts along with (every other sensible persons) thoughts are conclusive evidence?

How did you and every other sensible person arrive at this conclusion?

I don't really expect and answer to this question, just more jokes and insults.

 

[USN2Pulpit]

poncho, let's not be at odds. To put it plainly, I don't believe all of your sources to be credible. And I'm not saying you should move to another country. I'm just saying that if you truly believe these things, you should have enough power in your conviction so that you would not wish to be a citizen of an entity that is so evil. How could you live with the knowledge that you are partaking freely of the society and culture that has murdered its own citizens for the sake of money and power? If you truly believe these things, I would think integrity would demand action on your part - and not just posting topics like these on an online bulletin board.

For that reason, I look forward to seeing these charges being made public. If the sources you have relied upon for your position are so reputable, then even the mainstream media won't be able to avoid making this conspiracy public.

A question for you then: do your sources tell you just who in the government might have arranged/condoned the 9/11 attacks or was it a vast conspiracy?

[ July 31, 2004, 08:58 PM: Message edited by: USN2Pulpit ]

 

[poncho]

Once again you (and I don't mean only you) avoid answering a question and sidetrack to questioning my actions and the credibility of "my" sources.

I have at least attempted to offer some evidence of my convictions...to support my position on this subject.

No, now I think it's your turn to offer some evidence to support your convictions.

Why must the burden of proof always be
put back on me?

It seems to me that if you are so convinced in what you believe to be true you would be only to happy to provide us all with your concrete evidence.


And I do not wish to be at odds.

 

[poncho]

These charges as you call them have already been in the "mainstream media" you just choose to ignore them for one reason or another.

I gave you two links in an earlier post. I don't know if you bothered to look at them or give them any serious thought. But. I have my doubts.

You probably couldn't bring yourself to look past the title of the website or the commentary contained in them long enough to notice that they are in actual fact an archive of news articles from the "mainstream media" documenting in no uncertain terms the trends that have been going on all around you.

You hear the term conspiracy theory and your objectivity goes out the window. That is called conditioning. Sorry if this offends you.

The two websites are:

Infowars

and

Prisonplanet

In case you would like to try your own advice and be objective. I have included them again. Look into the archives of the "mainstream media" articles on prisonplanet...go back two or three or four years and start adding it up.

 

[USN2Pulpit]

You make to many assumptions. I spent a considerable amount of time looking at your sites, and all but dismiss them as recklessly paranoid. (With this exception: I think it would be great news to have a convenient capture of bin Laden just prior to the election.)

You have your opinion on the matter, which leads you to believe our nation has perpetrated an unspeakable evil on our own citizens and the rest of the world by faking a surprise attack on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, as well as shooting down a domestic airliner, just to make it all seem more "real." It seems as though you will not be swayed, since all evidence against your position is dismissed by you as lies. As you put it:

Summon up all the sources and patriot garbage you can find from the these liars and theives that play on words and patriotism that wrap themselves in the flag and destroy our repblic.

So, deep is their deception that christians are howling for blood. Count me out.

It seems as though you're the one that's not looking at evidence.

Nope, I'm done. It's enough. Like I said in my first post, you're not likely to change your views. I'm just sorry I broke with my own intention to not get into this debate - I should have known, based on the weblinks you provided.

 

[poncho]

I can't begin to imagine how I have refused to look at the evidence. I have seen you post none.

Only demands that I be the one to provide all the evidence, which I at least attempted to do. While excepting ridicule and offering my apologies for going overboard.

This is kind of a one sided debate I agree. But it was kind of interesting thanks for your posts.

BTW, CMG, I'm sorry, didn't mean to burst your bubble about the UFO's.

 

[church mouse guy]

Originally posted by Artimaeus:
I am a senior citizen..

During the Clinton Administration I had an extremely good and well
paying job. I took numerous vacations and had several vacation homes.
Since President Bush took office, I have watched my entire life change
for the worse. I lost my job. I lost my two sons in that terrible Iraqi
War. I lost my homes. I lost my health insurance. As matter of fact I
lost virtually everything and became homeless.

Adding insult to injury, when the authorities found me living like an
animal, instead of helping me, they arrested me.

I will do anything that Senator Kerry wants to insure that a Democrat is
back in the White House come next year. Bush has to go.

I just thought you and your listeners would like to know how one senior
citizen views the Bush Administration. Thank you for taking time to read
my letter.

Sincerely,

Saddam Hussein