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Classic Hymns VS CCM music in church
- Thread starter preach97
- Start date
SpiritualMadMan
New Member
Vermae,
I, too, will pray with you...
As an older 'saint' your potential in guiding the young ones can not be overstated...
Are you the only one in your age group that feels this way?
If not, have you banded togther to pray about the issue...
You need to at least pray long enough so that when you approach your pastor or music minister what you say won't immediately put them on the defensive...
People tend to stop listening when they're on the defensive.
Unfortunately, the louder Praise Music is coming into the church... (Whether we like it or not.)
And, often it is doing so without regard to the long term saints of God...
Also, Loud Praise is great for Sunday School Prelimenaries...
But, if it never progresses into music you can Worship to... The entire song service is wasted...
If Hymns are what the majority can worship to then it is in 'poor form' to have nothing but CCM style Praise Music...
However, if there are only one or two older Saints then you may be in a situation where all you can do is request they provide earplugs and concentrate on the message of the Lyrics...
The message of the Lyrics is something very few Pastors or Music Ministers can fight against...
If you can show them where the lyrics are not scriptural then you can probably win your case...
Another problem is, is that the youth tend to have the most disposable income and as such are an important part of the Financial Base of the Church...
And, as such, some leeway needs to be granted provided they are Lovers of God, Bible Disciples and Living in Tune with the Spirit...
Granted the Clothing and the Music might absolutely drive you crazy...
But, look to their hearts...
And, see which twigs God wants you to Gently Prune...
SMM
I, too, will pray with you...
As an older 'saint' your potential in guiding the young ones can not be overstated...
Are you the only one in your age group that feels this way?
If not, have you banded togther to pray about the issue...
You need to at least pray long enough so that when you approach your pastor or music minister what you say won't immediately put them on the defensive...
People tend to stop listening when they're on the defensive.
Unfortunately, the louder Praise Music is coming into the church... (Whether we like it or not.)
And, often it is doing so without regard to the long term saints of God...
Also, Loud Praise is great for Sunday School Prelimenaries...
But, if it never progresses into music you can Worship to... The entire song service is wasted...
If Hymns are what the majority can worship to then it is in 'poor form' to have nothing but CCM style Praise Music...
However, if there are only one or two older Saints then you may be in a situation where all you can do is request they provide earplugs and concentrate on the message of the Lyrics...
The message of the Lyrics is something very few Pastors or Music Ministers can fight against...
If you can show them where the lyrics are not scriptural then you can probably win your case...
Another problem is, is that the youth tend to have the most disposable income and as such are an important part of the Financial Base of the Church...
And, as such, some leeway needs to be granted provided they are Lovers of God, Bible Disciples and Living in Tune with the Spirit...
Granted the Clothing and the Music might absolutely drive you crazy...
But, look to their hearts...
And, see which twigs God wants you to Gently Prune...
SMM
T
TaterTot
Guest
we wont ever go to loud "CCM" I am sure, but we have begun to incorporate some nice worshipful choruses that are doctrinally sound. We have done it ever so gently and slowly over the past few years. There are 2 or 3 that have not liked it. But as the music leader, I will never take away their hymns nor hymnals. But we can share in each others worship preferences. THat is my hope for Vermaes church as well.
musicforyou
New Member
Ok so that is what it is about - the money. I get it now. Let's appease the young people so they will give us more money. It's all starting to make sense why you want the worldly music in your churches.
SpiritualMadMan
New Member
Yep, that's harsh, alright...
But, if you *really* think that's what I think you didn't read my post...
Never know when you'll want a wise word from harsh experience.
As for me I'd go to two services before I'd risk alienating both groups...
Youth Service would be the early service...
We'll see just how dedicated the young ones *really* are! heh heh heh
SMM
But, if you *really* think that's what I think you didn't read my post...
Now if you guys *really* want to toss out us old gezzers... Do so at your own peril.
Never know when you'll want a wise word from harsh experience.
As for me I'd go to two services before I'd risk alienating both groups...
Youth Service would be the early service...
We'll see just how dedicated the young ones *really* are! heh heh heh
SMM
I'm thankful to have a minimum of attitudes like JD's in my church...
and Musicforyou, what a rotten accusation to make. You have no right to tell someone that their heart for worship is really a heart of greed. That's God's job. You're trying to make an "us vs them" category that wiser leaders of worship don't make. You're also claiming to know the hearts of thousands of Christians. Are you SURE you want that job...judge and jury?
I would never claim that churches that use exclusively traditional forms of music are doing so to keep the "old people satisfied," so they'll "give more money." It's wrong, classless, and prejudicial to do so. You owe Christians who use more modern forms the same respect.
Wow...the thing that amazes me about your attitudes? You refuse to admit that there are folks using all of it, under one roof...and that God can bless it.
I wonder if it would disappoint you to know that God actually can bless what you don't like.
Old...ancient...modern...I love how God uses it all here.
and Musicforyou, what a rotten accusation to make. You have no right to tell someone that their heart for worship is really a heart of greed. That's God's job. You're trying to make an "us vs them" category that wiser leaders of worship don't make. You're also claiming to know the hearts of thousands of Christians. Are you SURE you want that job...judge and jury?
I would never claim that churches that use exclusively traditional forms of music are doing so to keep the "old people satisfied," so they'll "give more money." It's wrong, classless, and prejudicial to do so. You owe Christians who use more modern forms the same respect.
Wow...the thing that amazes me about your attitudes? You refuse to admit that there are folks using all of it, under one roof...and that God can bless it.
I wonder if it would disappoint you to know that God actually can bless what you don't like.
Old...ancient...modern...I love how God uses it all here.
Joshua Rhodes
<img src=/jrhodes.jpg>
Who said anything about appeasing anyone?
SpiritualMadMan
New Member
Yes, I believe there was a 'touch' of sarcasm involved...
At least I *hope* so...
But, it'd be nice to know for sure.
SMM
At least I *hope* so...
But, it'd be nice to know for sure.
SMM
The point of my post was in the question "Isn't that the REAL philosophy of the emergent church?"
I'm alleging that the youth movement in the churches today, whether inteded or not, is hostile to the aged folks.
When you bring rockandroll into a church and offend people with it, are you walking in love? So what if you have liberty? Will you eat meat that destroys your brother because you have liberty?
I happen to have musical preferrences like the rest of you. I love bluegrass gospel music. But here in the northeast where I live, it's considered low-grade music and is unwelcome in many churches. What would it say about me if I started a bluegrass band in my church and then insisted that anyone that doesn't like it basically should just take their closed mind elsewhere. Who is the one NOT walking in love?
I would rather my fingers fall off than play ONE NOTE of offensive music in my church. I would rather there be NO MUSIC in church than fighting over it.
I don't think all CCM is "bad". The problem with too many young pastors and their music is that they fail to see that music should "vetted", that is, proven over time to be generally accepted in the church. Some CCM will make the grade, and others won't. But some people think they can just thrust any musical style onto their church and simply label anyone that doesn't like it as closed-minded.
Young people need to be patient and wait their turn.
I'm alleging that the youth movement in the churches today, whether inteded or not, is hostile to the aged folks.
When you bring rockandroll into a church and offend people with it, are you walking in love? So what if you have liberty? Will you eat meat that destroys your brother because you have liberty?
I happen to have musical preferrences like the rest of you. I love bluegrass gospel music. But here in the northeast where I live, it's considered low-grade music and is unwelcome in many churches. What would it say about me if I started a bluegrass band in my church and then insisted that anyone that doesn't like it basically should just take their closed mind elsewhere. Who is the one NOT walking in love?
I would rather my fingers fall off than play ONE NOTE of offensive music in my church. I would rather there be NO MUSIC in church than fighting over it.
I don't think all CCM is "bad". The problem with too many young pastors and their music is that they fail to see that music should "vetted", that is, proven over time to be generally accepted in the church. Some CCM will make the grade, and others won't. But some people think they can just thrust any musical style onto their church and simply label anyone that doesn't like it as closed-minded.
Young people need to be patient and wait their turn.
Joshua Rhodes
<img src=/jrhodes.jpg>
I disagree. I think sometimes it can be handled better, but the "aged" in my church really support the youth and encourage them. They sing the "new" songs, and are glad that I'm teaching the "old" songs to the kids as well. While I'm not naive enough to think that all "aged" people everywhere agree that this is normal, shouldn't everyone be a little more gracious in their view toward other views in the church of all places? And no, I'm not preaching a "gospel of tolerance" as I've been accused of in the past.
My job as a music minister is not to stroke the egos or preferences of anyone in the church, especially my own. If the worship of God offends, it is the offendees that need to examine themselves. There are people on both sides of this argument, that are offended by the other side. Why do we listen to one louder than the other?
You're welcome to your preferences, just like everyone else. If that music ministers to us, praise God for it! That doesn't make it less viable for use.
I don't know of anyone here, although I could be wrong, who is purporting the philosophy of "If you don't like it, get out."
Noble, however extreme.
Agreed. Neither is all of it "good."
I disagree. We are exhorted by Scripture to sing a new song.
I agree with this. Why do we sing "Holy, Holy, Holy?" Because it's survived 400 years worth of hymnals, church services, and Christians. That's why those in music ministry must be discerning about the songs they use. Not based on age, but on validity, teachable theology, and "Biblicality."
I haven't done that, and don't know anyone that has. The "closed-minded" argument is reserved for people that really are, and there are a few out there, wouldn't you agree?
This is a "closed-minded"-type thing to say, at heart. Why should we ask people to wait 50 years to sing songs that they are ministered to by? If they meet criteria for use, what prohibits them from being used now. Style is a secondary issue, at least in my mind.
Joshua, you said "Style is a secondary issue, at least in my mind."
Style is exactly what becomes the devisive issue by people who insist upon introducing their "style" into a situation where it's not welcome.
If up-beat style is welcome in your church, so be it, I'm not dealing with that issue right now. Maybe later. But I'm trying to focus in on the issue of bringing in music that offends people, and the ones offended are further cast off by being accused of being the ones that are unloving. Maybe this doesn't happen in your church, but I can testify that it happens in a lot of others.
Style is exactly what becomes the devisive issue by people who insist upon introducing their "style" into a situation where it's not welcome.
If up-beat style is welcome in your church, so be it, I'm not dealing with that issue right now. Maybe later. But I'm trying to focus in on the issue of bringing in music that offends people, and the ones offended are further cast off by being accused of being the ones that are unloving. Maybe this doesn't happen in your church, but I can testify that it happens in a lot of others.
Joshua Rhodes
<img src=/jrhodes.jpg>
OK, J.D. -
I'll concede that I don't know what happens in every church. But every church is made up of imperfect people. And imperfect people sin. There is a generation of people that aren't coming to church. Why? Because when they go, they are ostracized for any number of reasons, one being that they don't like the music. So many churches, and this I can attest to, push this element of people out the door and make them unwelcome, thus essentially turning their backs on a group of people that need the Lord.
The real issue is not what kind of music, whether or not the preacher wears a tie, or what color the carpet is. 1) is the Word being preached faithfully? 2) are the people worshipping with all their heart, soul, mind, and strength? 3) are the people perfectable, or are they rigid? 4) is there a passion to serve?
I'll concede that I don't know what happens in every church. But every church is made up of imperfect people. And imperfect people sin. There is a generation of people that aren't coming to church. Why? Because when they go, they are ostracized for any number of reasons, one being that they don't like the music. So many churches, and this I can attest to, push this element of people out the door and make them unwelcome, thus essentially turning their backs on a group of people that need the Lord.
The real issue is not what kind of music, whether or not the preacher wears a tie, or what color the carpet is. 1) is the Word being preached faithfully? 2) are the people worshipping with all their heart, soul, mind, and strength? 3) are the people perfectable, or are they rigid? 4) is there a passion to serve?
SpiritualMadMan
New Member
JD...
Young people can be offended, too...
I've been a song leader where we couldn't do hymns well because the piano player was the head deacons wife and she was too old to play fast enough to maintain tempo...
But, we couldn't replace her because she was mother of the church and the lead deacons wife...
I watched the attendance go from 75 to 10...
We could have seated 120...
When we got to that point we went to Trax which had both Hymns and CCM style worship...
Of course the head deacon and his wife left...
The official reason?
They didn't like the style of music we were doing even though it was still about 75% Hymns...
We grew back up to about 60 before I moved on because I was replaced by a Southern Gospel Piano Player who thought she could sing...
I was gone a year and while I was gone the church attendance fell off again to the low 20's...
That great piano player that pastor brought in to replace me (breaking his promise to me) left about two weeks after I did...
I have never had a young person threaten to leave the church if they didn't get their way or music...
I have had several adults threaten to do so, get their way, and then leave anyway...
Sorry, but at 53, if I am *forced* to make a choice between youth which is just starting their lives out in Christ and oldsters which have been around the Gospel for years and should know better...
At 53, I'll take the youth any day...
I'd rather have both...
But, I've had a lot more success discipling youth than adults.
SMM
Young people can be offended, too...
I've been a song leader where we couldn't do hymns well because the piano player was the head deacons wife and she was too old to play fast enough to maintain tempo...
But, we couldn't replace her because she was mother of the church and the lead deacons wife...
I watched the attendance go from 75 to 10...
We could have seated 120...
When we got to that point we went to Trax which had both Hymns and CCM style worship...
Of course the head deacon and his wife left...
The official reason?
They didn't like the style of music we were doing even though it was still about 75% Hymns...
We grew back up to about 60 before I moved on because I was replaced by a Southern Gospel Piano Player who thought she could sing...
I was gone a year and while I was gone the church attendance fell off again to the low 20's...
That great piano player that pastor brought in to replace me (breaking his promise to me) left about two weeks after I did...
I have never had a young person threaten to leave the church if they didn't get their way or music...
I have had several adults threaten to do so, get their way, and then leave anyway...
Sorry, but at 53, if I am *forced* to make a choice between youth which is just starting their lives out in Christ and oldsters which have been around the Gospel for years and should know better...
At 53, I'll take the youth any day...
I'd rather have both...
But, I've had a lot more success discipling youth than adults.
SMM
Yessiree..that jives with Godly submission and servanthood...ohboy...
And yes, I would say the same to a youngster who was insensitive enough to say, "The old people need to hurry up and croak so we can run things."
Sheesh.
JD, why the venom toward teens in the church? </font>[/QUOTE]I think J.D. does have a valid point, we do need to have patience in our Christian walk and we do need to teach virtues of having patience, not only for teens but old-timers as well.
musicforyou
New Member
rbell,
Obviously you didn't note the sarcasm it that post. Why can some people be sarcastic and others can't. You really ought to read a little bit better before you start jumping people because you might just make an enemy.
Obviously you didn't note the sarcasm it that post. Why can some people be sarcastic and others can't. You really ought to read a little bit better before you start jumping people because you might just make an enemy.
Joshua Rhodes
<img src=/jrhodes.jpg>
musicforyou -
Which post was sarcastic? To whom are you referring?
Which post was sarcastic? To whom are you referring?