Col.2{16}

[Dr. Walter]

When you quote me partially it really helps your argument. I also said in the same posts that Paul habitually met on the Sabbath day with the Jews as he went to the Jews first. However, this was in a Jewish synogue and there is no way under heaven that a Jewish synonogue would allow Christians to conduct a service. There were Jewish proselytes (Greeks) in the synoguoe service. So all your quotations are worthless!! They only prove that Paul's witnessing began with the Jews in the Jewish Synoguoges when the Jews met on Saturday. It does not offer a scintilla of evidence that a single solitary congregation every met on Saturday or ever had a worship service on Saturday!

quatro four quady......quady?

ACTS 18[1] After these things Paul departed from Athens, and came to Corinth;[2] And found a certain Jew named Aquila, born in Pontus, lately come from Italy, with his wife Priscilla; (because that Claudius had commanded all Jews to depart from Rome and came unto them.[3] And because he was of the same craft, he abode with them, and wrought: for by their occupation they were tentmakers.[4] And HE REASONED IN THE SYNAGOGUE EVERY SABBATH, and persuaded the Jews AND THE GREEKS.

ACTS 13[13] Now when Paul and his company loosed from Paphos, they came to Perga in Pamphylia: and John departing from them returned to Jerusalem.[14] But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and WENT INTO THE SYNAGOGUE ON THE SABBATH DAY, AND SAT DOWN.[15] And after the reading of the law and the prophets the rulers of the synagogue sent unto them, saying, Ye men and brethren, if ye have any word of exhortation for the people, say on.[16] Then Paul stood up, and beckoning with his hand said, Men of Israel, and ye that fear God, give audience.

ACTS 13 [42] And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.[43] Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.[44] And THE NEXT SABBATH DAY CAME ALMOST THE WHOLE CITY TOGETHER TO HEAR THE WORD OF GOD.

ACTS 17[1] Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where was a synagogue of the Jews:[2] AND PAUL, AS HIS MANNER WAS, WENT IN UNTO THEM, AND THREE SABBATH DAYS reasoned with them out of the scriptures,[3] Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ.[4] And some of them believed, and consorted with Paul and Silas; and of the devout Greeks a great multitude, and of the chief women not a few.

I already know your gonna say Paul and the gentiles werent there to keep the sabbath. But that i guess is the only thing you could say and yet i will believe what the scriptures say

Well Dr Walter
As my manner is....theres a Wednesday night tv show that i always watch at 8. See ya later

 

[Dr. Walter]

>God wrote the ten commandments upon stone which Moses broke in pieces. They were regiven by God to Moses, but MOSES WROTE THEM the next time and Moses WROTE all the rest of the Old Covenant. Hence, the "handwriting of ordinances" refers to the whole Old Covenant written by Moses.

Then as a Christian do you observe all 613 laws for/by yourself or do you ignore all 613?

You really need to read your Bible a little bit more. Are you erecting altars in your back yard and offering up bulls, goats, sheep? Are you observing Nazerite vows? Are you using water for ceremonial defilements? The Old Covenant is over and gone and no longer valid with all of its ceremonial laws, commands, offerings, feasts, etc.

 

[Chowmah]

When you quote me partially it really helps your argument. I also said in the same posts that Paul habitually met on the Sabbath day with the Jews as he went to the Jews first. However, this was in a Jewish synogue and there is no way under heaven that a Jewish synonogue would allow Christians to conduct a service. There were Jewish proselytes (Greeks) in the synoguoe service. So all your quotations are worthless!! They only prove that Paul's witnessing began with the Jews in the Jewish Synoguoges when the Jews met on Saturday. It does not offer a scintilla of evidence that a single solitary congregation every met on Saturday or ever had a worship service on Saturday!

Seems your not the 1st to accuse Paul of not keeping Gods law and you wont be the last

ACTS 25 [7] And when he was come, the Jews which came down from Jerusalem stood round about, and laid many and grievous complaints against Paul, which they could not prove. [8] While he answered for himself, NEITHER AGAINST THE LAW OF THE JEWS, neither against the temple, nor yet against Caesar, HAVE I OFFENDED ANY THING AT ALL.

 

[Chowmah]

However, this was in a Jewish synogue and there is no way under heaven that a Jewish synonogue would allow Christians to conduct a service.

ACTS 13 [42] And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, THE GENTILES besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.[43] Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.[44] And THE NEXT SABBATH DAY CAME ALMOST THE WHOLE CITY TOGETHER TO HEAR THE WORD OF GOD.

Is "the whole city" also only Jewish proselytes (Greeks). Greek Jewish proselytes???? Im not saying there are no Greek Jewish (greek) proselytes spoken of in the bible but i cant find them in scripture. Could you point out the scripture that has these Greek Jewish proselytes. Thanks Doc

 

[Dr. Walter]

ACTS 13 [42] And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, THE GENTILES besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.[43] Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.[44] And THE NEXT SABBATH DAY CAME ALMOST THE WHOLE CITY TOGETHER TO HEAR THE WORD OF GOD.

Is "the whole city" also only Jewish proselytes (Greeks). Greek Jewish proselytes???? Im not saying there are no Greek Jewish (greek) proselytes spoken of in the bible but i cant find them in scripture. Could you point out the scripture that has these Greek Jewish proselytes. Thanks Doc

Are "the whole city" also Jewish Sabbath keepers?????? What is said is simple and easy. The Greek proselytes wanted to hear more on their Sabbath day. They went home and during the week the talk spread about the new Jew that was speaking at the Synogogue and the "whole city" came out to see him.

However, you are ignorning your problem and my challenge! You cannot find a single passage of scripture in the book of Acts or any epistle where a single solitary CHURCH met for worship on Saturday! All you can do is find where Paul met with JEWS and JEWISH PROSEYLYTES on their Sabbath in order to EVANGELIZE THEM rather than conduct a CHURCH WORSHIP service!

 

[Dr. Walter]

The whole Jewish Sabbatical cycle has been abolished - Col. 2:16 - with the Old covenant.

However, the fourth commandment is still valid. The fourth commandment never uses the descriptive prepositional phrase "of the week" as that phrase would contradict God's own use of the fourth commandment. God applies the Sabbath law to other days (7th, 1st, 10th, 15th) of the month and other periods of time (24 hours, seventh year, 50th year).

Hebrews 4:1-11 is a very precise argument that a new sabbath day observance has been established by Christ that is better than the Jewish observance.

Ellen G. White and SDA Advocates have lied for years about worship on Sunday beginning with Constantine. They have used the perverted "sun" worship argument for years while omitting that "Saturn" worship was just as pagan as "sun" worship.

There is not one recorded instance in the Bible where a "church" or "churches" ever met to conduct worship on Saturday or the Jewish Sabbath but there are references where they met on the first day of the week and these must be EXPLAINED AWAY by Saturday Advocates.

The "Lord's Day" (Gr. Kuriakos) is Sunday in Revelation 1:10 and the phrase "The Lord's Day" from that point forward can be shown to be used interchangably with "first day of the week" "resurrection day" "eighth day" and "Sunday."

 

[Dr. Walter]

Col. 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
16 ¶ Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

This section is introduced by reference to a ceremonial practice - "circumcision" in verse 13. Hence, the ceremonial laws introduce this passage. This passage is closed by direct references to the whole ceremonial system of laws - (1) dietary laws "meat, or in drink"; (2) Leviticus 23-25 feast laws "holyday, or the new moon, or of sabbath days"
They are identified with the rest of the ceremonial laws or sacrificial laws as a "shadow" (Heb. 10:1).

The words "sabbath days" is literally just "sabbaths" found in the plural but directly associated with the common terms for the feast laws in Leviticus 23-25 which were all types of Christ's work of Redemption in the new covenant. This is easily seen in the passover feast, feast of unleavened bread, feast of Pentecost. The reference to "new moon" is a direct reference to the beginning of a new month on the Jewish calandar of feasts in Leviticus 23. The reference to "meat, or in drink" has reference to the dietary laws of Leviticus 11 and the laws regarding the Preisthood that forbid them to "drink" wine as well as the ceremonial defilement for the nazerite vow forbidden to "drink" the fruit of the vine.

These things are so obvious and clear that the Seventh Day Advocate must explain the obvious away in order to avoid scathing condemnation.

What the Seventh day advocates cannot possibly deny is that the term "sabbath days" concludes a list of things and therefore necessarily isinclusive in that list of things that are explicitly labeled by Paul as part of the "shadow" rather than the "body". The metaphor is simple. A "shadow" is cast due to the sun behind a "body." The "shadow" is not real or substantive while the "body" casting the shadow is real and substantive. Paul uses the same analogy for the sacrificial system and preisthood of the Old Testament (Heb. 10:1). The Sabbatical cycle (day, weeks, month, years) found in Leviticus 23-25 has been abolished wherein the same text are found the "new moons" or MONTHLY calandar of feast laws. This phrasology incorporates the whole Leviticual laws found throughout the book of Leviticus. The whole Levitical Priesthood, its ceremonies, sacrifices, dietary laws, feasts, Sabbaths, etc. have been abolished along with the Temple and Old Covenant.

Who can deny that Hebrews 8-9 argue that the entire "Old" Covenant has been abolished??? What is "the sign" of the "Old" Jewish Covenant according to SDA advocates? "The seventh day Sabbath" is their response. Which is greater? The sign or that which is signified? Again common sense tells you that which is signified is greater than the sign. If the "Old" Covenant has been abolished so has its sign! End of Story!

 

[Chowmah]

There is not one recorded instance in the Bible where a "church" or "churches" ever met to conduct worship on Saturday or the Jewish Sabbath but there are references where they met on the first day of the week and these must be EXPLAINED AWAY by Saturday Advocates.

ACTS 20 [7] And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.[8] And there were many lights in the upper chamber, where they were gathered together.

The above scripture is used by the many to convince people that sunday was being kept as a day of rest instead of the sabbath during the time of Paul. They will point out that on the first day of the week they came together to “break bread” and thus the believers of Pauls time were following sunday as the “new testament” day of rest.

ACTS 2 [42] And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.[43] And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles.[44] And all that believed were together, and had all things common;[45] And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.[46] And they, CONTINUING DAILY with one accord in the temple, AND BREAKING BREAD from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,

But as you can see they “broke bread” daily. Not just on the first day of the week. THEY WERE SIMPLY EATING. The fact is, you will find no where in the new testament anyone keeping sunday as a day of rest.

 

[Chowmah]

The "Lord's Day" (Gr. Kuriakos) is Sunday in Revelation 1:10 and the phrase "The Lord's Day" from that point forward can be shown to be used interchangably with "first day of the week" "resurrection day" "eighth day" and "Sunday."

One more time

REV.1 [7] Behold, HE COMETH WITH CLOUDS; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of THE EARTH SHALL WAIL because of him. Even so, Amen.[8] I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.[9] I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.[10] I was in the Spirit on THE LORD'S DAY, and heard behind me a GREAT VOICE, as of A TRUMPET,

he cometh with clouds - of a trumpet - the Lord's day - a great voice - the earth shall wail

ZEPH.1 [14] The great DAY OF THE LORD is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even THE VOICE of the day of the LORD: the mighty man shall CRY THERE BITTERLY.[15] That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a DAY OF CLOUDS and thick darkness,[16] A day of THE TRUMPET and alarm against the fenced cities, and against the high towers

a day of clouds - of the trumpet - The great day of the LORD - even the voice - man shall cry there bitterly

Unless you believe these events happen twice

clouds-trumpet-DAY OF THE LORD {Lords Day}-voice-cryin time

You would know Rev.1 is speaking of the DAY OF THE LORD. Not sunday. Very simple

 

[Dr. Walter]

ACTS 20 [7] And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.[8] And there were many lights in the upper chamber, where they were gathered together.

The above scripture is used by the many to convince people that sunday was being kept as a day of rest instead of the sabbath during the time of Paul. They will point out that on the first day of the week they came together to “break bread” and thus the believers of Pauls time were following sunday as the “new testament” day of rest.

ACTS 2 [42] And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.[43] And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles.[44] And all that believed were together, and had all things common;[45] And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.[46] And they, CONTINUING DAILY with one accord in the temple, AND BREAKING BREAD from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,

But as you can see they “broke bread” daily. Not just on the first day of the week. THEY WERE SIMPLY EATING. The fact is, you will find no where in the new testament anyone keeping sunday as a day of rest.

Like I said, SDA advocates have to EXPLAIN AWAY the obvious problems to their theory. Chowman thinks he can jump like a kangeroo from one context to another completely different context to EXPLAIN AWAY the obvious. In Acts 2 they were also ASSEMBLING for worship daily but in Acts 20 it distinctly says "And upon the first day of the week WHEN the disciples came together." These disciples were not assembling EVERY DAY of the week or DAILY for worship. If so, then this disproves that SATURDAY was any more special than Sunday thru Friday as a day of worship and thus the Saturntarian has shot himself in his own foot.

In Acts 2 the "daily" worship services could work because this is in a context when all males had gathered to Jerusalem for the feast of Passover and Pentecost and therefore the opportunity afforded such "daily" worship services. The regular work schedule for these people had a planned interruption as they had planned to be present in Jerusalem during this period of time. However, when they returned home they entered back into the daily routine of their jobs. Acts 20 is their weekly routine of work and worship and their worship falls upon a particular day of the week which is named and designated to the discomfort of SDA advocates.

 

[Chowmah]

This passage is closed by direct references to the whole ceremonial system of laws - (1) dietary laws "meat, or in drink"; (2) Leviticus 23-25 feast laws "holyday, or the new moon, or of sabbath days"
They are identified with the rest of the ceremonial laws or sacrificial laws as a "shadow" (Heb. 10:1).

Nope

HEBREWS 10 [1] For THE LAW HAVING A SHADOW of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with THOSE SACRIFICES WHICH THEY OFFERED YEAR BY YEAR continually make the comers thereunto perfect.[2] For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.[3] But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.[4] For IT IS NOT POSSIBLE THAT THE BLOOD OF BULLS AND OF GOATS SHOULD TAKE AWAY SINS.

 

[Dr. Walter]

Nope

HEBREWS 10 [1] For THE LAW HAVING A SHADOW of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with THOSE SACRIFICES WHICH THEY OFFERED YEAR BY YEAR continually make the comers thereunto perfect.[2] For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.[3] But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.[4] For IT IS NOT POSSIBLE THAT THE BLOOD OF BULLS AND OF GOATS SHOULD TAKE AWAY SINS.

I am glad you can read! The metaphor of a "shadow" is consistently applied by Paul to the CEREMONIAL laws or the whole LEVITICAL legislation that included the sacrificial and Aaronic Preistly system with the temple and all of its feasts. They were TYPES and that is why such things could not possibly remove sin literally - they were figures or a "shadow" just as the "sabbaths" in Leviticus 23 were included in this Old Covenant "shadow" observances.

 

[Chowmah]

Well Doc i must say you sure do use a lot of words not found in the bible to try and prove your position but lets simply look at scripture

ISAIAH 8 [16] Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples.[17] And I WILL WAIT UPON THE LORD, that hideth his face from the house of Jacob, and I will look for him.[18] Behold, I and the children whom the LORD hath given me are for signs and for wonders in Israel from the LORD of hosts, which dwelleth in mount Zion.[19] And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?[20] TO THE LAW AND TO THE TESTIMONY: IF THEY SPEAK NOT ACCORDING TO THIS WORD, IT IS BECAUSE THERE IS NO LIGHT IN THEM.

Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my diciples and wait on the Lord. To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. Didn’t Jesus say that he was the light of the world?

PSALM 78 [1] Give ear, O my people, to my law: incline your ears to the words of my mouth. [2] I WILL OPEN MY MOUTH IN A PARABLE: I will utter dark sayings of old: [3] Which we have heard and known, and our fathers have told us. [4] We will not hide them from their children, shewing to the generation to come the praises of the Lord, and his strength, and his wonderful works that he hath done. [5] For HE ESTABLISHED A TESTIMONY IN JACOB, AND APPOINTED A LAW IN ISRAEL, which he commanded our fathers, that they should make them known to their children: [6] That the generation to come might know them, even the children which should be born; who should arise and declare them to their children: [7] THAT THEY MIGHT SET THEIR HOPE IN GOD, AND NOT FORGET THE WORKS OF GOD, BUT KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS:

Who opened his mouth in a parable Doc? Yup, Jesus Christ. And this scripture says he established a testimony in Jacob, and appointed a law in Israel, that they might set their hope in God and KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS.

PSALM 119 [32] I will run the way of THY COMMANDMENTS, when thou shalt enlarge my heart.(2COR.6 v.11) [33] Teach me, O Lord, the way of thy statutes; and I shall keep it unto the end. [34] Give me understanding, and I SHALL KEEP THY LAW; yea, I shall observe it with my whole heart. [35] Make me to go in the path of thy commandments; for therein do I delight. [36] Incline my heart unto THY TESTIMONIES, and not to covetousness. [37] Turn away mine eyes from beholding vanity; and quicken thou me in thy way. [38] Stablish thy word unto thy servant, who is devoted to thy fear. [39] Turn away my reproach which I fear: for thy judgments are good. [40] Behold, I have longed after thy precepts: quicken me in thy righteousness. [41] Let thy mercies come also unto me, O Lord, EVEN THY SALVATION, according to thy word.

Here again we find it’s the law (commandments) and the testimony (of Jesus) and this leads to SALVATION.

PSALM 119 [165] Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them. [166] Lord, I have hoped for thy SALVATION, and done THY COMMANDMENTS. [167] My soul hath kept thy testimonies; and I love them exceedingly. [168] I have kept thy precepts and THY TESTIMONIES: for all my ways are before thee.

and here again

REV.12 [16] And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.[17] And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, WHICH KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD, AND HAVE THE TESTIMONY OF JESUS CHRIST.

And here again...WHICH KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD, AND HAVE THE TESTIMONY OF JESUS CHRIST.

 

[Dr. Walter]

As usual you do not use the scriptures in context and therefore do not know what you are talking about. Commandment keeping is never once said in these scriptures to be what gets a person into heaven. Saved people obey those commands which are relevant to them. Under the Old Covenant they obeye what was relevant to them. Under the New Covenant they obeyed what was relevant to them. New Covenant Christians are not subjected to Old Covenant laws as those laws have been abolished as far as their practice. Do you have a altar in your back yard and offer up sheep? Are you a Levite and qualified to do so?

Well Doc i must say you sure do use a lot of words not found in the bible to try and prove your position but lets simply look at scripture

ISAIAH 8 [16] Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples.[17] And I WILL WAIT UPON THE LORD, that hideth his face from the house of Jacob, and I will look for him.[18] Behold, I and the children whom the LORD hath given me are for signs and for wonders in Israel from the LORD of hosts, which dwelleth in mount Zion.[19] And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?[20] TO THE LAW AND TO THE TESTIMONY: IF THEY SPEAK NOT ACCORDING TO THIS WORD, IT IS BECAUSE THERE IS NO LIGHT IN THEM.

Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my diciples and wait on the Lord. To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. Didn’t Jesus say that he was the light of the world?

PSALM 78 [1] Give ear, O my people, to my law: incline your ears to the words of my mouth. [2] I WILL OPEN MY MOUTH IN A PARABLE: I will utter dark sayings of old: [3] Which we have heard and known, and our fathers have told us. [4] We will not hide them from their children, shewing to the generation to come the praises of the Lord, and his strength, and his wonderful works that he hath done. [5] For HE ESTABLISHED A TESTIMONY IN JACOB, AND APPOINTED A LAW IN ISRAEL, which he commanded our fathers, that they should make them known to their children: [6] That the generation to come might know them, even the children which should be born; who should arise and declare them to their children: [7] THAT THEY MIGHT SET THEIR HOPE IN GOD, AND NOT FORGET THE WORKS OF GOD, BUT KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS:

Who opened his mouth in a parable Doc? Yup, Jesus Christ. And this scripture says he established a testimony in Jacob, and appointed a law in Israel, that they might set their hope in God and KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS.

PSALM 119 [32] I will run the way of THY COMMANDMENTS, when thou shalt enlarge my heart.(2COR.6 v.11) [33] Teach me, O Lord, the way of thy statutes; and I shall keep it unto the end. [34] Give me understanding, and I SHALL KEEP THY LAW; yea, I shall observe it with my whole heart. [35] Make me to go in the path of thy commandments; for therein do I delight. [36] Incline my heart unto THY TESTIMONIES, and not to covetousness. [37] Turn away mine eyes from beholding vanity; and quicken thou me in thy way. [38] Stablish thy word unto thy servant, who is devoted to thy fear. [39] Turn away my reproach which I fear: for thy judgments are good. [40] Behold, I have longed after thy precepts: quicken me in thy righteousness. [41] Let thy mercies come also unto me, O Lord, EVEN THY SALVATION, according to thy word.

Here again we find it’s the law (commandments) and the testimony (of Jesus) and this leads to SALVATION.

PSALM 119 [165] Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them. [166] Lord, I have hoped for thy SALVATION, and done THY COMMANDMENTS. [167] My soul hath kept thy testimonies; and I love them exceedingly. [168] I have kept thy precepts and THY TESTIMONIES: for all my ways are before thee.

and here again

REV.12 [16] And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.[17] And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, WHICH KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD, AND HAVE THE TESTIMONY OF JESUS CHRIST.

And here again...WHICH KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD, AND HAVE THE TESTIMONY OF JESUS CHRIST.

 

[Chowmah]

Hence, the "handwriting of ordinances" refers to the whole Old Covenant written by Moses.

Just simply love those Day of the Lord scriptures. Its then the fat lady sings

ISAIAH 24 [3] The land shall be utterly emptied, and utterly spoiled: for the LORD hath spoken this word.[4] The earth mourneth and fadeth away, the world languisheth and fadeth away, the haughty people of the earth do languish.[5] The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.[6] Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left

Mr Walter says the handwriting of the ordinances includes Gods ten commandments and there is no more law. Scriptures says they trangress the law and changed the ordinance. Thats the exact picture of what Mr Walters is preachin. Aint the Word great! Prophecy fulfilled!

 

[Chowmah]

New Covenant Christians are not subjected to Old Covenant laws as those laws have been abolished as far as their practice. Do you have a altar in your back yard and offer up sheep? Are you a Levite and qualified to do so?

Ofcourse not. Thats what this thread is about. The meat and drink offerings which were observed before Christ on the new moons, feast days and sabbath days are not to be observed anymore....Why?

HEBREWS 13 [9] Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be ESTABLISHED WITH GRACE; NOT WITH MEATS, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein. [10] We have an altar, whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle. [11] For THE BODIES OF THOSE BEASTS, WHOSE BLOOD is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned without the camp. [12] WHEREFORE JESUS ALSO, THAT HE MIGHT SANCTIFY THE PEOPLE WITH HIS OWN BLOOD, suffered without the gate.

Its the meat and drink offerings that are no more to be observed.

JOHN 6 [53] Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. [54] Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. [55] For MY FLESH IS MEAT INDEED, and MY BLOOD IS DRINK INDEED.

 

[SpiritualMadMan]

I think this says it all?

I don't think anyone is listening or desires to have their mind changed...

 

[Dr. Walter]

The law never gave life, never was a way of salvation, but was "added" to instruct in the nature of sin and the righteousenss of God that can only be found in faith in Christ (Gal. 3).

However, you are trying to make it a path of salvation before the cross but done away as a path of salvation after the cross!

The same salvation that preceded Moses is the same salvation that was during Moses and after Moses (Acts 10:43). However, the law was "ADDED" to help define their need (sin) to find salvation in the gospel. So simple, yet so difficult for legalists.

Just simply love those Day of the Lord scriptures. Its then the fat lady sings

ISAIAH 24 [3] The land shall be utterly emptied, and utterly spoiled: for the LORD hath spoken this word.[4] The earth mourneth and fadeth away, the world languisheth and fadeth away, the haughty people of the earth do languish.[5] The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.[6] Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left

Mr Walter says the handwriting of the ordinances includes Gods ten commandments and there is no more law. Scriptures says they trangress the law and changed the ordinance. Thats the exact picture of what Mr Walters is preachin. Aint the Word great! Prophecy fulfilled!

 

[Chowmah]

I think this says it all?
I don't think anyone is listening or desires to have their mind changed...

Yeah SMM

ISAIAH 28 [9] WHOM SHALL HE TEACH KNOWLEDGE? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? THEM THAT ARE WEANED FROM THE MILK, and drawn from the breasts.[10] For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:[11] For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.[12] To whom he said, THIS IS THE REST wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and THIS IS THE REFRESHING: yet they would not hear.

I kinda knew that from the start. Thats what the scriptures say. They refuse to hear. To whom he said this is the rest and the refreshing, but they refused to hear. Rest? Refreshing?

EXODUS 31 [15] Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.[16] Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.[17] It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and ON THE SEVENTH DAY HE RESTED, AND WAS REFRESHED.

 

[Chowmah]

So simple, yet so difficult for legalists.

So good Doctor
What will you say when you stand before Christ? Save me Lord, im an illegallist, i did nothing you commanded me to do.

Good luck with that