Collapse Of WTC Buildings (Just the facts)

[Phillip]

Continuing:

Quote from BYU physics teacher.

"I maintain that these observations are consistent with the use of high-temperature cutter-charges such as thermite, HMX or RDX or some combination thereof, routinely used to melt/cut/demolish steel.?"

Just above that:

Smoke/debris-jets: Did you observe puffs of smoke/debris coming out of the building? Please note for yourself the sequence and fast timing of observed puffs or “squibs.”

First, Thermite is not a high-explosive and burns quite slowly. Why would RDX or HMX would be used in leu of Composition 4?

If there were "cutter-charges" and the observed puffs would be the entire charge going off, not a squib. A squib is nothing more than an initator. The high-explosive would go off instantly so the puff would have to be due to a secondary-explosive (the cutter-charge) and not just a squib.

On the other hand, if he is trying to indicate the squibs ignite thermite: thermite is ignited by magnesium that deflagrates (burns with extremely high-temperature) and does not detonate. A squib would do nothing but scatter the thermite.

So, either way he has some errors that would certainly indicate a major error in his report which is unlikely to occur coming from an explosives expert.

– no steel-beam high-rise had ever before (or since) completely collapsed due to fires! However, such complete and nearly symmetrical collapses in tall steel-frame buildings have occurred many times before -- all of them due to pre-positioned explosives in a procedure called “implosion” or controlled demolition. What a surprise, then, for such an occurrence in downtown Manhattan— three skyscrapers completely collapsed on the same day, September 11, 2001, presumably without the use of explosives.

No building before has had a jet-airliner full of kerosene crash into it that was built the way the WTC were.

It is highly doubtful that a simple fire would cause a building collapse. Like most accidents two or more factors usually combine (often found in aircraft accidents).

In this case we have the unique structure of very heavy concrete floors literally hung on brackets from the external shell of the building which acted as a pipe.

Do you have any idea of the energy the building absorbed due to the inertia of the aircraft? Don't you think that would cause major damage to the building causing a weak link?

Then we have a major load of fuel. A hugh flying incendiary missile carrying a close equivalent to napalm.

Then we have the ducting of the heat directly to the damaged "weak-link" area as the fuel ran down to lower floors. Puff came when the floor collapsed and the pancaking began. (Much powder powderized.)

Molten Iron? You have a blast furnace being oxidized by air pulled upwards. With the heat confined in the pipe and bleeding out the damaged section which creates a low pressure zone causing more air to rush in from below increasing the oxidation. Just like a blast furnace used to melt iron.

 

[Phillip]

Originally posted by gb93433:
Don't forget that the elevator shafts were not lined up. They were offset at several floors up creating a moment arm.

This is true; do you recall the level that was considered a mezanine (sp?) where the actual shift occurred? If I recall correctly it wa on a floor about 2/3s of the way up, near the crash or above it?

 

[PastorSBC1303]

I can't believe the people here that would believe some of this nonsense.

Phillip, thank you for all your posts, and dealing with the real facts.

 

[Phillip]

Originally posted by PastorSBC1303:
I can't believe the people here that would believe some of this nonsense.

Phillip, thank you for all your posts, and dealing with the real facts.

Thank YOU for the respect that you have given me. I do appreciate it.

I do get a little frustrated with Christians wasting their time and believing every wild story they hear. I believe that we have much higher issues to be concerned with.

Have a great weekend--PastorSBC1303--I enjoy your level headed posts. I would like to hear you preach someday.

 

[emeraldctyangel]

Shift occurred?
Are you talking about where the upper elevators ended and you had to get off one set an onto another to get to the lower levels?

I think that was around the 76th/77th level? There are many references in the entire compound that are referred to mezzanine levels.

Whatever was left of the WTC structure that could hold keys to the fall of the building, was sold as scrap. Fire investigators couldnt sufficiently conclude anything about structural qualities of the steel when introduced to JP5 at its highest unstable form because of that.

 

[PastorSBC1303]

Originally posted by Phillip:
Have a great weekend--PastorSBC1303--I enjoy your level headed posts. I would like to hear you preach someday.

You have a great weekend too!

 

[saturneptune]

Phillip,
Very good posts. You know in my lifetime, this same old tired conspriacy stuff surfaces, 1. Kennedy is not really dead 2. Oswald didnt shoot Kennedy, Johnson had him killed, Nixon was in Dallas the same day. 3. We really didnt land on the moon. 4. Someone else shot Martin Luther King. 5. Elvis isnt dead. 6. The President is keeping UFO information from the public. 7. Kennedy stole the 1960 election. etc, etc, etc,

The closest one I ever even considered was others besides Oswald being involved. I guess people just got to have a conspiracy to survive.

 

[Daisy]

One other thing about WT7 collapsing although not hit: this sort of thing happens in NYC from time to time, although it is almost always one of the older, shorter residential buildings. The newspapers generally attribute it to nearby contruction compromising the foundation of the collapsed builing. The collapses of those two massive towers probably did mess up the foundations of the buildings closest to them.

A long time ago, I read a book by John McPhee on the geology of NY. I recall his mentioning that the reason the very tall buildings in Manhattan were clustered in mid-town was that that is where the solid bedrock is nearest the surface. The lower tip of Manhattan has far less readily accessable bedrock (I've heard that Battery City was mostly built on fill).

Perhaps because I have absolutely no knowledge of engineering or what went into the specific contruction of that cluster of buildings, WT7's falling down under the conditions that it did, doesn't surprize me.

 

[LadyEagle]

Originally posted by emeraldctyangel:
Shift occurred?
Are you talking about where the upper elevators ended and you had to get off one set an onto another to get to the lower levels?

I think that was around the 76th/77th level? There are many references in the entire compound that are referred to mezzanine levels.

Whatever was left of the WTC structure that could hold keys to the fall of the building, was sold as scrap. Fire investigators couldnt sufficiently conclude anything about structural qualities of the steel when introduced to JP5 at its highest unstable form because of that.

Exactly. There was a rush to get rid of the evidence by selling the WTC steel as scrap to China and India instead of conducting full forensics investigation. The steel had hardly cooled off before it was shipped abroad. Why?

 

[LadyEagle]

I guess people just got to have a conspiracy to survive.

We have a government with a proven record of lying and coverups throughout recent history so some of us just can't swallow the "official" government reports hook, line, and sinker.

 

[PastorSBC1303]

So going out and latching on to some crazy speculation is the answer? Goodness.

So they got rid of the scap. If they did get rid of the scrap, how could the gov't known all of this other stuff without investigating it themselves?

I think Saturn makes a good point, some do seem to need to have something like this to constantly keep them going.

 

[Hope of Glory]

I'm sure that most buildings, when demolished, they let their rubble sit around for months just waiting. The towers fell, it was scrap, and it was a danger just sitting there.

 

[LadyEagle]

http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0204-06.htm

 

[PastorSBC1303]

Oh well that clears it all up

More speculation and nonsense.

 

[Hope of Glory]

My wife's cousin was an architect on the WTC and the UN building. I guess that makes us guilty as well.

 

[rsr]

I admit it. I bought the scrap and am using it to build the Bush Akbar Mosque outside Crawford, Texas. I would have got the material elsewhere, but the Illuminati, the Bilderbergers and David Rockefeller had all the regular material supplies tied up. The International Zionist Conspiracy offered to sell, but they wanted the money in Chinese funds, and those were, at the time, tied up in buying American corporations.

 

[Aaron]

I've been around conspiracy theorists for half my life. One conspiracy, however, I have not been able to explain away, and that is the bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in OKC.

Maybe Phillip can help.

I'm told that if a bomb in a truck parked in front of the building had the force to damage the main supports, (which is what brought half the building down) it would have at the least blown the windows out of the other side of the building.

Is this true?

 

[tragic_pizza]

LadyE, you conveniently ignroe the fact that, thoughout the process of recovery and cleanup, the WTC site was treated as a crime scene. By the time scrap was discarded, it had been examined for evidence, clues, etc.

Look, if you'd rather listen to tinfoil-hat kooks than experienced engineers like Phillip, I can't help you. The facts are the facts, whether you like them or not.

 

[LadyEagle]

LadyE, you conveniently ignroe the fact that, thoughout the process of recovery and cleanup, the WTC site was treated as a crime scene. By the time scrap was discarded, it had been examined for evidence, clues, etc.

If it is a fact, then you should be able to provide plenty of links to back up that fact. Please do. I'm interested in seeing them.

Look, folks, my mind is not made up one way or the other. Please provide links to support your facts, especially if the facts are facts, whether I like them or not.

All I know is the WTC looked like an implosion to me and the link I posted says there were some Middle Eastern men (illegal aliens) with forged driver's licenses who made a trip to NYC to the WTC to "inspect" the sprinkler system. And the key witness to all of this mysteriously perished in a fiery car crash in Tennessee. Why were these Middle Eastern men not investigated and why was the story never followed up in the media? And why wasn't the story of who made thousands of $$ off the put options on United Airlines and American Airlines ever followed up on in the media? And why wasn't there an investigation into the 2001 calendar printed in Egypt that showed the month of September with Jets flying toward the WTC? There is more to this than we have been told.

 

[tragic_pizza]

LadyE, what professional experience helped you determine that the WTC collapses "looked like an implosion? How much experience do you have with shaped charges, and what is your experience with architectural engineering, demolition, and related fields?

Your information is anecdotal at best. As I have previously stated, Occam's Razor requires the simplest explanation, and that explanation is that large jet planes filled with a highly volatile substance (kerosene) were used as missiles.

If you must have evidence of the obvious, please go to Google or Yahoo and research the ongoing news reports concerning recovery and clearing efforts at the WTC site. Countless references to its treatment as a crime scene will be evident.