Colossian 2:16-17 confirms the Sabbath Christian!

Thanks Bob for keeping our discussion up. Time is very little there for it. I feel this text is VERY important for a Biblical understanding of the NT's Sabbath teaching, so will be very fruitful to unraival to its true consequences.
You write here as had there been a very long history behind the Church when it received this Letter, which opinion I believe you will have to reconsider. You also think as were this Paul's Letter to the Galatians where he deals with the CHURCH that RETURNS to its former pagan practices. That implies definite time to have elapsed since the start of that Church but obviously could not have been very long.
In Colossians' case it looks like a much younger Congregation, and clearly in a quite different milieu than in Galatia. Here the Church had to face the Helenistic WORLD and its subtleties like "philosophy", "wisdom", "first principles", "power", "dominion" etc. These manifested in the WORLD through ascetecism and hermit-life which THREATENED to penetrate the (infant, young) Church. The Church it was supposed would gain by adopting things from the great world, and Christianity would only be so much the better for it.
What though is of greater significance in theis Letter is that Paul has NO word of criticism against this Congregation, but in tis Letter expresses himself more positively towards the Church than in any of his other Letters to the Church. Verses 16-17 must be appreciated in line with this fact: Paul does NOT castigate the Church but encourages the Church in exactly what she finds herself busy doing: in "celebrating" -"in eating and drinking" Jesus Christ and the Faith of Jesus Christ -a "feasting OF (belonging to) your Sabbaths whether of weekly ("Sabbaths" or of month's (Lord's Supper) Feasts".
Sabbath-antagonists have manipulated this text to further there cause of 1, against the Sabbath, and 2, favouring Sunday-keeping. They neither literally nor in essence stick to the TEXT!
Tragically, Sabbath-defenders fell for it. More tragically, Sabbath-defenders won't budge from their own traitional stand in order to get a proper perspective on the Scripture.
A few finer point I would like to add, but now must first attend to something else
Christian greetings
Gerhard

 

Dear Bob,
It just perhaps 'might be there'in this very text of Colossians. This is NOT Romans 14 -the 'Judaistic' issue, and this is NOT Galatians 4 -the 'pagan' issue. In Colossians it is head on collision between 'the world' and 'the Body of Christ's'.
Your whole argument hinges on the single premise that Paul here deals with 'ceremonial' Sabbaths etc., not with 'the Sabbath' of the Fourth Commandment. And you argue in defence of this presupposition for the single reason that you are of the mind that Paul speaks AGAINST whatever is meant by 'Sabbaths' etc.
If you however depart from the standpoint Paul acts the champion of these practices and of its practitioners so to speak, then why fear to accept he speaks of 'the Sabbath' unconditionally -that is to say- that he speaks of the Church "celebrating and enjoying -feasting ("eating and drinking")- her Sabbaths' Feasts, whether of weekly ("Sabbaths'") or of month's (Lord's Supper')?
THEN, the CONTEXT fits perfectly, namely, that Paul uses Christ's victory over every obstacle to salvation as BASIS OF and FOR his immediately following and out-flowing ENCOURAGEMENT: "Do not you (the Body of Christ) be judged by any" etc.
Dear brother in Jesus "our Head" as Paul calls Him in the same context, and from whom we receive "nourishment" to "grow with the growth of God", dear brother in Jesus, Why object? Its all there to accept with great joy and comfort! All there in this very Word!
Why fight the hopeless battle to "prove" 'ceremonial Sabbaths' are here the subject of contention in the Church and between brethren in Christ whom Paul has ONLY words of encouragement and approval for?
Just a last 'technicality': I cannot find the concept or implication of "NEW moons" or of "ANNUAL Sabbath" - 'it's just not there. And I cannot find either of these or the real - the "SABBATHS" as well as the "MONTHS" the direct object of judgement - at least not in the Greek. It makes one wonder: WHY is it so TRANSLATED? To promote the translators' idea -not Paul's idea- that the Sabbath here comes under Paul's judgement - which it does NOT!
Gerhard

 

Dear Bob,
Something else 'technical':
Where do you read that <<Paul says that the annual ceremonial sabbaths of Lev 23 are in fact "shadow Sabbaths" that point forward to the sacrifice of Christ>>?
Although <<this is very true>>, and <<each of these annual Sabbaths pointed FORWARD to the Work of Christ in sacrifice and in redemption>>, it is NOT what <<Paul says>>, HERE. Neither are the words -or idea- <<annual>>, <<ceremonial>>, HERE, nor YOUR idea of <<shadow Sabbath>>. "These things", <<says Paul>>, referring back to the "eating and drinking OF feasts, whether of Sabbaths' or of months' feasts" - literally and with exact meaning -CHRISTIAN 'observance' of THE Sabbath of the Bible- "are a shadow of coming (things) indeed of the Body that belongs to Christ" -which says the SAME 'thing' that 'Paul says' further on, the Body "receiving nourishment", to "grow with the increase of God" -a FUTURE, "coming thing" or "spectre of the Body that is of Christs' (children)".

 

Good day, Bob,
I have very little time for the computer, and this forum we are using is rather difficult - practically. I would appreciate greatly if we could continue our discussion on this topic by email, whether we agree or not seeing it stimulates thoughts that otherwise would not have occurred. I am grateful for your willingness in this regard.
Only to mention one thing now which I find uncomfortable, and that is your use of quotation marks as if you quote me while I not nearly hold such view. E.g., "... he (Paul) is correcting an "abuse of the Sabbaths". I hold Paul does not do anything of the sort, or that he deals with an issue of the judging of one another. I maintain Paul for NO reason 'upbraids' the Church, but defends it, and that he defends the Church against an outside influence and subtle foe, namely the "world" of "philosophy" and of all sorts of other sophistries which it hoped it could pollute the Church with.
I do not disagree with you that a judging of one another was going on in the Church - but it is not to be found in this Letter of Paul to the Colossians. I do not disagree with you there used to be different kinds of 'Sabbaths' - yet again that nothing of the sort is distinguishable in this Letter.
First of all I think you should get a grasp on the Passive of Paul's command: He does not say, 'Do not judge'; he does not say, 'Do not judge one another'. He says, "Do not YOU BE judged BY anyone" whith immediate reference to the foregoing verse 15 which mentions the powers and the mighty "principalities" / "principles" of the WORLD that Christ overcame and made the laughingstock of. "Anyone" (tis) is anyone of THESE!
Looking forward to your reply - per e-mail if you will agree?
Gerhard : Find my email with the small tokens on top of the page, Thanks.