Colossian 3:13b; NIV vs. ESV, NKJV, KJV, NASB, etc.

[InTheLight]

There seems to be a phrase missing from Colossians 3:13 in the NIV. Here's the verse:

13 Bear with each other and forgive one another if any of you has a grievance against someone. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. [NIV]

13 bearing with one another and, if one has a complaint against another, forgiving each other; as the Lord has forgiven you, so you also must forgive. [ESV]

13 bearing with one another, and forgiving one another, if anyone has a complaint against another; even as Christ forgave you, so you also must do. [NKJV]

13 Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye. [KJV]

13 bearing with one another, and forgiving each other, whoever has a complaint against anyone; just as the Lord forgave you, so also should you. [NASB]

It appears to be that the word "must" or "should" was added by the translators in the non-NIV translations. You can see in the NKJV the word is in italics. OK, so maybe there is a little ambiguity in the exact wording of the phrase. But surely there is a phrase after "as Christ has forgiven you", isn't there?

Greek scholars--Is the NIV leaving something out?

 

[McCree79]

I don't see any significant difference in meaning.

Forgive as the Lord forgave you. NIV

Vs.

"as the Lord has forgiven you, so you also must forgive." [ESV]

The meaning is identical, no?

I am not a Greek scholar, but I do read English and I am getting the same meaning from all the translations listed.


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[InTheLight]

I don't see any significant difference in meaning.

Forgive as the Lord forgave you. NIV

Vs.

"as the Lord has forgiven you, so you also must forgive." [ESV]

The meaning is identical, no?

I am not a Greek scholar, but I do read English and I am getting the same meaning from all the translations listed.


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The command for Christians to forgive--"so you also must do"--is completely missing from the NIV.

 

[McCree79]

"Forgive as the Lord forgave you" is a command to forgive. The NIV just condensed it.

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[rlvaughn]

Caveat: also not a Greek scholar

Like McCree, I think the meaning is the same and maybe shows a difference in translation philosophy? The other translations try to give words/word order that is more like what is in the Greek, since it does end with words that can be translated "even so [do] you".

When we look at Greek texts, NA/UBS and Stephanus 1550 show a slight difference, but not in reference to what you ask. NA has κύριος/Lord where Stephanus has χριστος/Christ, which accounts for that difference in KJV and NKJV.

 

[InTheLight]

"Forgive as the Lord forgave you" is a command to forgive. The NIV just condensed it.

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Agreed. My question is whether or not there is a phrase in the Greek at the tail end of the thought that the NIV is omitting. Maybe the exhortation to forgive is being repeated because it's important and isn't meant to be condensed.

(I'm not taking pot shots at the NIV, it's my preferred version. I just want to know if this is a spot where it could have done better.)

 

[rlvaughn]

The last half of the text in NA reads: καθὼς καὶ ὁ κύριος ἐχαρίσατο ὑμῖν οὕτως καὶ ὑμεῖς:
So the words could mean roughly in order:
Even so/According as | indeed | the Lord | forgave | you | so | indeed | you [do].

You can see in the NKJV the word is in italics.

This probably wasn't italicized in the online KJV you found, but "do" will be italicized in a print edition.

 

[TCassidy]

Greek scholars--Is the NIV leaving something out?

ουτως (in the same way) και (also) υμεις (you).

 

[banana]

Check out the NET's note at Lumina.bible.org

 

[InTheLight]

Check out the NET's note at Lumina.bible.org

Won't let me see it, or it says "no notes for that passage."

Sent from my Motorola Droid Turbo.

 

[Rob_BW]

If anyone should have a complaint against anyone, just as also the Lord forgave you, thus also you do the same. LEB

 

[rlvaughn]

Check out the NET's note at Lumina.bible.org

Is this the one:

tn The expression “forgive others” is not in the Greek text, but is implied. It is included in the translation to make the sentence complete and more comprehensible to the English reader.

Goes with this translation of Colossians 3:13 in NET:

bearing with one another and forgiving one another, if someone happens to have a complaint against anyone else. Just as the Lord has forgiven you, so you also forgive others. NET Bible®

 

[TCassidy]

Won't let me see it, or it says "no notes for that passage."

You didn't miss much.

All it says is:

The expression “forgive others” is not in the Greek text, but is implied. It is included in the translation to make the sentence complete and more comprehensible to the English reader.

Which, of course, is not what we are talking about.

 

[jacob2i]

Let me say that I am not a KJ onlyist. However, the KJV is the only translation in the English language that should be used. Study after study I have done has proven that the KJV is far more accurate to the original texts. Even considering using the NIV or NASB is laughable. The NKJV, while not OK, is the best of the modern translations but if you need to know, go with the KJV and have the original greek and hebrew available from the site blueletterbible.org

 

[TCassidy]

The NKJV, while not OK

Tell me what is wrong with the NKJV.

 

[McCree79]

Let me say that I am not a KJ onlyist. However, the KJV is the only translation in the English language that should be used. Study after study I have done has proven that the KJV is far more accurate to the original texts. Even considering using the NIV or NASB is laughable. The NKJV, while not OK, is the best of the modern translations but if you need to know, go with the KJV and have the original greek and hebrew available from the site blueletterbible.org

What is laughable about the NASB? What makes the KJV superior to the likes of the Geneva?

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[Rippon]

Let me say that I am not a KJ onlyist. However, the KJV is the only translation in the English language that should be used. Study after study I have done has proven that the KJV is far more accurate to the original texts. Even considering using the NIV or NASB is laughable. The NKJV, while not OK, is the best of the modern translations but if you need to know, go with the KJV and have the original greek and hebrew available from the site blueletterbible.org

By reading the above how can you deny that you are KJVO?

 

[Van]

As a word for word translation philosophy advocate, I do not like the NIV rewriting verses. But it appears, as others have noted, they did not alter the message, they just condensed it. As TC has noted at the end of the verse three Greek words appear (thus also you)
which the NIV captured by saying "forgive as the Lord forgave you."

Yes it appears many translations added "do" or "must" or "should" without putting the additions in italics.

I like the NASB version, except that the added "should" should be in italics.

 

[TCassidy]

Hello? Hello? jacob2i? Are you there?

Earth to jacob2i. Earth to jacob2i. Come in please.

Tell me what is wrong with the NKJV.

 

[franklinmonroe]

There seems to be a phrase missing from Colossians 3:13 in the NIV. Here's the verse:

13 Bear with each other and forgive one another if any of you has a grievance against someone. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. [NIV]

It does not take a Greek scholar to see that the NIV has not left the imperative statement out. Note that the NIV has merely move the command from the back of the phrase to the front: "Forgive..."
I give credit to the NIV for their economy of words to express the phrase.