Laughable. Vicar does not mean “oppose to” or “against”. Just like we get the vice in vice-president and no one says that’s against president.
This is a typical misrepresentation.
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Come out of Babylon, what does that mean?
- Thread starter Hobie
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This is a typical misrepresentation.
ad finitum
Active Member
This is a misrepresentation of my argument which was about the overlap of meanings and usage, e.g. "in the place of". Both words have that meaning in common.
Maybe you could try addressing the actual argument. I'm listening.
The obvious meaning is built into the word “anti” prefix it means against or in opposition. There is no ties between both words. That is a blatant misrepresentation. I’m sure you won’t find that’s virtue in 1 Corinthians 13.
ad finitum
Active Member
You are talking of English and not the Greek. That is why I showed the Greek lexicon, not the English. This is why expositors learn the original language so that they can bring out, for their congregations, that which gets lost in translation.
The Bible is not the end all be all of the Latin and Greek languages. You wanted to draw a false connection between both words, you even said the pope’s followers already knew this.
I don’t need a bible to know what a vicar is. You know darn well the idea is to vilify to equate a person to the devil. If you are insincere even about that fact you think I’m going to give any weight to what you say?
ad finitum
Active Member
2 John 1:7 says that many deceivers are the antichrist. So I don't try to equate the antichrist with "the Devil". So your claim that this is my idea is wrong. Maybe you will apologize?
Also, I gave you not what I say, but what the Greek says. Do Greek definitions mean anything to anyone? Maybe the answer is "no". Are Greek definitions "laughable"? Let's see.
Try looking at a The New Strong's Complete Dictionary of Bible Words. Try the entry for Greek word 499, antitupon which means "representative, or counterpart". Now you said "anti" obviously always means "against". But in Greek, that's not true. I'm sure you noticed the prefix, anti in antitupon.
Does that mean your assertion was wrong? Yes.
What about that prefix? Look at Strong's entry 473, anti, :"instead or because of (rarely "in addition to")...Often used in composition to denote contrast, requital, substitution, correspondence, etc.
What happened to your claim that "anti" always means "against"?
Notice that anti is the prefix in antichristos which is translated "antichrist". As we have seen, the locus of meaning in the underlying Greek word can be any of those uses of anti (Strongs 473).
Look up anti in your copy of A Greek Lexicon of The New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature, by W. Bauer, W. F. Arndt, F. W. Gingrich. What is the first and primary entry for anti? What does it say?
1. in order to indicate that one person or thing is, or is to be, replaced by another instead of, in place of...Mt 2:22, "in place of his father Herod" ...Lk 11:11, instead of a fish, a snake [and tons of other examples from the NT and other period Greek writings].
Does that remind you of the meaning of the Latin, Vicarus Christi? It means, "a person acting in the place of Christ". The connotation, by itself, is neutral. The same could be said of any Greek word prefixed with anti as in antitupon. Whether it is a good thing or a bad thing depends upon the context. John The Apostle uses antichristos numerous times and the context requires a negative connotation.
So, is "against Christ" as an interpretation of antichrist actually indicated by the Greek antichristos according to the lexica? Unless the context of usage says otherwise, the answer is "no".
What can we observe in a New Testament context? From John's letters, opposition can be implied by the fraudulent aspect of an ersatz representation of Christ or of doctrines pertaining to His person and work. But ersatz by itself isn't necessarily opposed, merely a cheap copy. But as a FAKE, it could be in opposition as in its "subversive" effect. The FAKE (person or information) is made to look like the original. So people might say, the Vicarius Christi is LEGIT. But is he? That is the question hanging in the air with antichrist (antichristos). Is he (or the doctrines about Him) LIVE or is he MEMOREX? John says people are deceived by antichristos. So if as you claim, antichrist is obviously opposed to Christ, where is the deception in that? The opposition comes in his being believed to be genuine. Do people believe Vicarius Christi is a legitimate representative? Will people believe that antichristos is a legitimate representative or even the article Himself?
This is why people wonder, legitimately, if the Pope, or a future Pope, could be the (or an) antichristos (but not "the Devil") because the locus of meaning overlaps so perfectly with the Latin, Vicarius Christi.
quod erat demonstrandum
Does this make me anti-Catholic? No. There are hordes of FAKE protestant ministers and self-appointed "apostles", too numerous to count. Does acknowledging that make me anti-protestant? No.
Hobie
Well-Known Member
You keep throwing what you can to see if you can cover the truth, it reminds me of...“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it.' Joseph Goebbels
Concerning the OP and Revelation chapter 18.
I tend to suspect that the command is to the religious Jews to flee NYC.
NYC, in many ways, symbolizes what Nimrod and the people attempted to achieve at the Tower of Babel.
The NYC area is the greatest concentration of Jews on earth. Even greater than Tel Aviv. Another Worldly city.
I tend to suspect that the command is to the religious Jews to flee NYC.
NYC, in many ways, symbolizes what Nimrod and the people attempted to achieve at the Tower of Babel.
The NYC area is the greatest concentration of Jews on earth. Even greater than Tel Aviv. Another Worldly city.
Hobie
Well-Known Member
No, this is relating to Gods people to come out of the religious system that thinks it has taken the place of Christ on earth, but in reality is against Him, thus 'anti christ'. 1 John 2:18 - Biblical Research Institute
OneIsTheWord
Member
he Gravestone in Vatican City-Babylon,
At 4 am I had a dream within a vision, I saw in the center of a huge court with a alter 360 degree above me, it was made of stone it, on it was eight figures, they were also huge insides, end to end 360 degree.
Seven of them have on the robe, colored from red to purple and gold, on their head were three crowns on top of each other, they held a staff or a scepter in their right hands, on top of this scepter across was an angel crucified to the cross, his wings were spread out on the cross. All of their faces were black
But the eight figures were much different than the seven figures, this was much bigger.
The Head was made a crown made of Gold, with six horns, three on one side and three on the other side his chest had a breastplate made of silver, and his arms an alchemist bracer of silver around on his arms with an iron robe - like bronze wrapped around his waist, covering both waist and his thigh.
His feet were bare it looks like the color copper, but his, alter was made of Clay; steam was coming out of the clay.
Then a loud noise came from above me, I look up a huge stone came flaming down, and something moves me quickly from the center of the huge place, the flaming stone slam the center court, as the smoke dissipated a gravestone appear in the center of this court WOW!
It was gravestone was a man sitting on a Throne on the bottom of this Throne, a Mythical beast called Centaur, half-man, half-beast!
Centaur beast had a cross crushing, the Centaurs back, and in front Centaurs were four black wolves with no eyes, on the bottom the gravestone was two skulls was four eyes and beside the skull eight figures with a year, then a flash of light came on me, I just woke up trembling.
OneIsTheWord
Member
Christ is saying to His Children to come out of the Vatican system,
In Jeremiah 15:6 (NKJV) You have forsaken Me," says the LORD, "You have gone backward.
Therefore I will stretch out My hand against you and destroy you; I am weary of relenting!
Revelation 11:8 (NKJV) And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt is, Vatican
where also our Lord was crucified daily when the mass in the Catholic Church
they crucified every time
Revelation 18:4-5 (NKJV) And I heard another voice from heaven saying, "Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues.
For her sins have reached to heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities.
the plagues that are written in the bible
this what this means
In Jeremiah 15:6 (NKJV) You have forsaken Me," says the LORD, "You have gone backward.
Therefore I will stretch out My hand against you and destroy you; I am weary of relenting!
Revelation 11:8 (NKJV) And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt is, Vatican
where also our Lord was crucified daily when the mass in the Catholic Church
they crucified every time
Revelation 18:4-5 (NKJV) And I heard another voice from heaven saying, "Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues.
For her sins have reached to heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities.
the plagues that are written in the bible
this what this means
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As the OP is now banned this thread is closed.
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