Communion

[buckster75]

The ones who call them sacraments, I don't believe, can give you any Scripture Tom because as I take it LS is not a sacrament.

 

[Tom Butler]

Jim Bublitz, who runs the blog "Old Truth" has interesting quotes from George Whitefield and C. H. Spurgeon that speaks to the subject we've been discussing.

It's at

George Whitefield, who was a leader in the 18th century Great Awakening, made it a practice to delay judgment until months or years down the road. Whitefield's reasoning for this was, you simply can't know right away. He said:

"There are so many stony ground hearers, who receive the Word with joy, that I have determined to suspend my judgment till I know the tree by its fruits. I cannot believe they are converts till I see fruit brought back; it will never do a sincere soul any harm".

A century later, Charles Spurgeon was also very outspoken against potentially boastful and self-validating conversion claims, saying:

"Do not, therefore, consider that soul-winning is or can be secured by the multiplication of baptisms, and the swelling of the size of your church. What mean these dispatches from the battle-field? "Last night, 14 souls were under conviction, 15 were justified, and 8 received full sanctification". I am weary of this public bragging, this counting of unhatched chickens, this exhibition of doubtful spoils. Lay aside such numberings of the people, such idle pretence of certifying in half a minute that which will need the testing of a lifetime".

That Romanian pastor I mentioned in an earlier post who requires two years of discipling before full membership privileges is in good company.

Tom Butler

 

[Tom Butler]

Apparently we've exhausted this line of discussion for the moment, so let me open a new line. Do you favor wine or grape juice? I mean fermented wine. And for the bread, do you use unleavened bread, or will saltine crackers do?

On the wine or grape juice issue, I can take either side and give you a good argument. In my church many years ago, we had a retired pastor who walked out when we observed the Lord's Supper because we used grape juice instead of wine.

After giving your preference, then I'd like to know what your church practices in this area.

Tom Butler

 

[mnw]

I would always use grape juice and unleavened bread. Though I would not be dogmatic about the bread, it is just a symbol. My decision about the wine vs. juice is from the alcohol matter.

I did go to a Brethren Fellowship once where they had a single cup and the wine was made by an old French gentleman who attended.

It was different.

 

[saturneptune]

Brother Tom:
Personally I would have no problem using real wine, but, if it causes a local church congregation discomfort and causes disunity in the church, stay with the grape juice. It is a symbol, and either edifies the soul.

 

[buckster75]

Would minors be allowed if it is real wine? not debating just asking.

Also Tom I wondered if you got a chance to check out this site?

http://bmaweb.net/BMALibrary/othart/bryan_pr/l_supper.htm

 

[Tom Butler]

buckster,
re: wine and minors, it's a good question. Let's ask those whose congegations use real wine. How do you handle it?

I did check out the BMA Library article. I appreciated the way he outlined fairly the different views before stating his support for closed communion.l

TB

 

[buckster75]

Gee Tom, did we need to ask that question on another thread?

 

[Ron Arndt]

The Lord's supper has been ABUSED over the last 20 years or so. The Lord's Supper in Baptist churches used to be served to MEMBERS ONLY, but now is served to all who wish to partake.In other words, OPEN communion. This is not scriptural at all.

Also communion should be observed as a SOLEMN time of prayer and reflection on what Christ has done for us in his sacrifice upon the cross. Also one should examine one's own soul at this time and CONFESS any sin to God that one may not have repented of BEFORE partaking of the bread and wine(grape juice), It is a time for self examination as well. One should NOT partake of the Lord's Supper unworthily.

Concerts are nice and enjoyable, as well as pot luck dinners. But when observing the Lord's Supper, this time should be exclusive and not shared with other events during the assembly of the saints.

 

[Tom Butler]

buckster,
you've been posting here much longer than I, and if you believe the question of wine or grape juice in the Lord's Supper should be in a separate thread, I bow to your experience. I was mainly trying to keep the "communion" thread alive. I'll raise the question in a new thread, and thanks for the advice
Tom B.

 

[rlvaughn]

Originally posted by Tom Butler:
Back to our subject, we both seem to agree that some sort of discipling and orientation is necessary, the question is how long. And the other question I'd like to hear feedback on is how long a period of time should there be, if any, between the salvation profession and baptism?

Tom Butler

Tom, I had forgotten about this thread. One thing I would suggest is that this is not as serious a problem in churches that do not practice pseudo-gospel easy believism techniques, although your post brings up an interesting perspective we probably wouldn't even think of here in America -- spies trying to infiltrate the church.

But to your questions. IF we accept a person's profession as geniune, I can see no scriptural reason to delay baptism. John turned some away, as I remember, for that reason. But the primary example is immediate baptisms. If you will look at this link, I won't try to repost much of what I've already said in another forum -- The "Urgency" of Baptism. I think on the other issue -- time elapse before church membership -- there might be more "wiggle room", although it seems to me that it comes back to whether we recognize them as a true convert. One applicable case is that of Paul trying to join the disciples at Jerusalem. He had come from Damascus and the Jerusalem folks weren't sure about him -- perhaps even thought him a spy? Once Barnabas convinced them he was a true disciple, they immediately received him.