Communism Survivor Destroys "Gun Control" Law Makers

[1689Dave]

And instruction of Paul's cannot be trumped by any other commands or instructions given by God or Jesus Christ? Why, then, did some Christians become martyrs under the Roman empire?

Also, I'm curious how you can be any denomination of Protestant? Historically, the Protestants rebelled against the Pope, who set himself up as the Vicar of Christ on Earth, with authority given to him through apostolic succession?

I think we have to look at the whole scripture and figure out how it can all be consistent internally. Some instructions are in a more limited context. Others are always universal and timeless.

The basics must override the details. What Christ instructed must always override anything else, especially if it was very clear and very plain and very basic.

We must not step over dollars to pick up pennies.

We need to put Christ first, then it will all make sense and balance out.

 

[church mouse guy]

Paul tells us to obey the civil magistrate in Romans 13. Do you agree? Peter and John say not to if the magistrate demands that you sin Acts 4:19.

Since Jesus endorsed self-defense, by your logic, it is a sin to leave yourself defenseless against any human government.

 

[church mouse guy]

Look at what the Romans did to Christians and Jerusalem.

Rome was a Nazi state. Your example of Nero was no good because Castro murdered on a large scale for 57 years. Jesus allowed self-defense but you don't and you haven't answered whether or not you want to move to Cuba, have you?

 

[I Love An Atheist]

Would you have helped Herod kill all the babies? But this is an interesting thought. Had pro violence Christians not helped Hitler enmasse, and followed the Sermon on the Mount instead as I and few others do, Hitler would not have done anywhere near the damage they helped him accomplish.

When Jesus said to turn the other cheek, it was the same thing as the Old Testament verse about "vengeance is mine saith the Lord." It did not mean we are not allowed any self-defense, though. If you think that is what it means, then how would you reconcile it with Luke 22: 36-38?

The Lord delegated "vengeance" to the law.

Even today, although we are not supposed to get revenge a la the Hatfields and McCoys, it is within our law to defend ourselves against an intruder in our homes if our lives are threatened.

When people traveled in those days, they traveled in groups, some armed with swords. It was common for travelers to be set upon. This is the historical context for the below:

Luke 22:36-38 King James Version (KJV)
36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

37 For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end.

38 And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.

 

[I Love An Atheist]

We need to put Christ first, then it will all make sense and balance out.

I agree with you here, but I don't see how your statement here is consistent with what you have been arguing?

 

[I Love An Atheist]

Paul lived under Nero = far worse than any. Yet he told his listeners to submit.

Of course we are supposed to submit to the law, overall. Certain basic concepts of morality are universal in laws. Nero didn't completely rewrite all the laws on the Roman books.

God delegated law to human authorities.

But God's Law is higher than human law.

It is impossible to read much about Paul without realizing he was a pragmatic problem-solver and had a lot of problems on his hands.

Paul was an example of "wise as a serpent, harmless as a dove".

 

[I Love An Atheist]

How does this relate to the Christian's role in the world?

The Hidden Holocaust : 12.7 Million Christians Murdered By The USSR - Knowledge Glue

I'm not claiming a holocaust competition. Obviously any holocaust against any group is morally heinous. But the above link has some documented historical facts that are sobering in the context of this topic.

 

[David Kent]

If you fight against your government you are a traitor. Governments, all governments were instituted by God.

 

[I Love An Atheist]

If you fight against your government you are a traitor. Governments, all governments were instituted by God.

I didn't say anything about fighting against my government. I was speaking of civil disobedience. The early Christian martyrs of Rome are an example of civil disobedience, for the sake of putting God's Law above the law of man.

I would point out, however, that what you just stated was qualified in no way that would make room for our American Founding Fathers with their Revolutionary War...

 

[Matt Black]

Well, indeed. Y'all need to repent of your here treasonous activities and return to Her Maj"s bountiful dominion.

 

[Matt Black]

If you fight against your government you are a traitor. Governments, all governments were instituted by God.

What about Beck, Goerdeler, Stauffenberg et al? Were they traitors or true patriots?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Look at what the Romans did to Christians and Jerusalem.

Yes, they legitimized them.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Well, indeed. Y'all need to repent of your here treasonous activities and return to Her Maj"s bountiful dominion.

Has y’all made its way into proper English language? Next you will be telling me ain’t is proper and I can put my elbows on the table. My Welsh aunties would never approve.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Paul lived under Nero = far worse than any. Yet he told his listeners to submit.

He was also killed.

 

[church mouse guy]

If you fight against your government you are a traitor. Governments, all governments were instituted by God.

God is not the author of evil. God did not put the degenerate Stalin in power.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

If you fight against your government you are a traitor. Governments, all governments were instituted by God.

By your logic, the revolutionaries of the 18th Centuary ( both French & American) would be categorized as traitors. How about the black slaves in America, were they traitors too... for wanting what, liberty, Justice, freedom?

 

[Matt Black]

Has y’all made its way into proper English language? Next you will be telling me ain’t is proper and I can put my elbows on the table. My Welsh aunties would never approve.

"Ain't" is indeed proper in places, as is "t'ain't". All joints on the table, however, will be carved still, cooked or uncooked!

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

"Ain't" is indeed proper in places, as is "t'ain't". All joints on the table, however, will be carved still, cooked or uncooked!

If we are speaking of the same joints I’m thinking about, it would probably be better just to smoke them with an ash tray nearby.

 

[Adonia]

But Paul tells us to be subject to the government. Never to defend it. And whatever government takes control, that's our government.

St. Paul wasn't always right and some things are just his opinion. He also said that men having long hair is a problem, so exactly what problem is there to men having long hair? Jesus loves us no matter what the length of our hair is.

 

[Adonia]

Would you have helped Herod kill all the babies? But this is an interesting thought. Had pro violence Christians not helped Hitler enmasse, and followed the Sermon on the Mount instead as I and few others do, Hitler would not have done anywhere near the damage they helped him accomplish.

So perhaps they should have fought Hitler? Oh wait, now I remember, the citizenry was disarmed - especially the Jews.