Company Hired by Southern Seminary Supports Diversity

[bobbyd]

PastorSBC, we may have to just agree to disagree on this one.
Everything that has taken place at SBTS over the last 10 years has Dr Mohler's name on it, both the good and bad.
When the BGCT pulled funding from the cooperative program causing a shortage to the seminaries, i saw my tuition and cost of living there go up considerably, and saw the planned building programs move even quicker. And when Dr Mohler does something, he does it very elaborately.
Example: That 3rd chapel he had built...was it really needed? It used to be a good student hangout/lounge/study area. Now its part of his legacy.

I just feel that now its more about Dr Mohler there than it is about the students; and from about 1997 until graduating in 2003 i was nearly a casualty of this.

 

[Martin]

How many CHRISTIAN workers did they fire/lay off in order to hire these clowns? Around 90 I hear? And all in the name of saving money!!! I have lost ALL RESPECT for Southern. Respect must be earned and once one has been lost it, it is VERY hard to get it back. Southern Seminary will need years to regain my trust and respect. To think, I just got done listening to Mohler preach family values on the radio....I guess his talks apply to everyone else. At this moment, I am ashamed to be a Southern Baptist!! This is a dark day.

Maybe the SBC needs to take disciplinary action against Southern?

 

[NateT]

Just a note about the lack of wages that are given to students working at the seminary.

A year ago at this time, I was trying to find a job so we could move to SBTS. I consulted the seminary and was told average pay is about 7.00 an hour for 20 hours of work. If I wanted to be full time, I'd only be able to take one class a semester. I figured that out pretty quickly to be 140.00 a week or ~560.00 a month. We couldn't find a suitable apartment for my family for that price. So I consulted other areas that I might be able to work in.

Thanks be to God that I am able to telecommute to my previous job. However, I am unable to sympathize with someone who signs up to work at the Seminary and then complains at their lack of wages or difficulty of work. I would be no more sympathetic to someone who worked at McDonalds and can't stand the smell of frying fat. At least at this point, the economy isn't so bad that you can't get a job at a hotel, UPS, a bank, or a number of other places that I have seminary friends working at.

The seminary's primary responsibility is to equip the next generation of minsiters, missionaries etc, and not to make sure that students have a job while they're here.

The only person I know who is working for the seminary as a student is living off the equity they had when they sold their house and moved here. It is a decision they made and they are fine with it as far as I know.

 

[PastorSBC1303]

Bobby from your posts you sound very inwardly focused ....just an observation...but I keep hearing you say it is all about Mohler there, but it seems you are all upset because it was not all about you.

I am thankful for the leadership of Dr. Mohler and what he has done at Southern to make it a world class seminary. And I am proud to be a DMin student there.

You are right, perhaps we should agree to disagree.

 

[gb93433]

Originally posted by Dr. Bob:
Can't believe the hatred for the conservatives in the SBC rolls over into this myopic thinking.

Your right it is myopic thinking. It is myopic thinking when you do not care about what scripture teaches. Can you even imagine the early church doing such a thing?

So Christians do not have an obligation to first take care of those of the household of faith first?

Gal. 6:10, "So then, while we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, and especially to those who are of the household of the faith."

Where is the obedience? SBTS not too long ago did away with child care for the students who had children. Who is SBTS serving? Where is the example in this?

I have heard your same argument from some in the SBC about hiring non-believers to teach at their colleges. Many see nothing wrong with it.

Before I was a student at SWBTS I worked for myself. When I worked for SWBTS I was paid a small fraction of what I had been making before seminary. Tell me how a huge addition on the presidents home at SWBTS to store books is serving the students. Tell me how that is practicing what Jesus taught about being a servant and being the least among believers. Since that home was built the former presidents lived in it and had no problem until the current president came along. Then he stands up to preach and tell the people how they must sacrifice for the gospel while he lives in his luxurious home and goes hunting in Africa. Sure doesn't fit the sacrificial giving of Lottie Moon and those Baptists who have gone before.

THE SBC leaders are living like kings while they are telling their students and congregations to sacrifice. Does that sound like the way Jesus taught and lived?

 

[gb93433]

Originally posted by Martin:
How many CHRISTIAN workers did they fire/lay off in order to hire these clowns? Around 90 I hear? And all in the name of saving money!!!

Maybe the SBC should let five of their six seminary presidents go. That would pay the tuition of quite a number of students.

 

[The Shogun]

Perhaps the decision was a change in philosophy.

Perhaps the Seminary realized that it was paying wages that were too low to get the kind of expertise needed in order to manage an 80 year old campus. Perhaps the Seminary realized that Co-operative program money was not being used as wisely as it should have been used.

Many of you created a strawman argument. Hourly employees (non-exempt) cannot be required to be Christian -- those questions cannot be asked. To say that Christians were fired and non-Christians are being hired is just not true.

Many of you speak of what you do not know.

If you knew all the circumstances, you would realize that this is an attempt to spend co-operative program money in more responsible manner.

Did anyone know about the 36 hours of no electricity on the SBTS campusin August? The cause was directly related to a lack of preventative maintenance on campus over the last 15 years......

 

[Palmetto Boy]

I have never been to SBTS, but I still bristle when I read some of these comments. Christian seminaries are founded to train people in the Bible. They are not welfare states. They should not be judged on whether they provide housing, high-paying jobs, etc. to their students. If anyone ought to be looking into these needs, it would be the students' sending churches.

Perhaps most astounding is the circular nature of some of these arguments. How is the school to provide good jobs and housing to students? That money has to come from somewhere. Anyone in favor of a tuition increase? Probably not.

 

[JGrayhound]

Originally posted by Martin:
How many CHRISTIAN workers did they fire/lay off in order to hire these clowns? Around 90 I hear? And all in the name of saving money!!!

You have assumed something that is simply not true. Who says all of these workers are Christians? Why did you assume they were all students?
It simply isn't the case.
You don't know what you're talking about.

I have lost ALL RESPECT for Southern. Respect must be earned and once one has been lost it, it is VERY hard to get it back. Southern Seminary will need years to regain my trust and respect. To think, I just got done listening to Mohler preach family values on the radio....I guess his talks apply to everyone else. At this moment, I am ashamed to be a Southern Baptist!! This is a dark day.

Maybe the SBC needs to take disciplinary action against Southern?

I am sure that the leadership at SBTS is very concerned that they have offended Martin.

Originally posted by gb93433:
SBTS not too long ago did away with child care for the students who had children. Who is SBTS serving? Where is the example in this?

Yet another area that you are talking about of which you know nothing.
If you knew anything you would know that the child care organization still exists (same people), but just no longer is housed on campus.
If you knew anything you would know that there was a very small number of people using this service, and of those that used it an even smaller amount were students (a VERY small amount, to be honest).

Maybe some of you who are so bold to attack Southern and Mohler might try and do a little bit of research before you start criticizing things of which you are completely ignorant.

 

[gb93433]

Originally posted by JGrayhound:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Martin:
How many CHRISTIAN workers did they fire/lay off in order to hire these clowns? Around 90 I hear? And all in the name of saving money!!!

You have assumed something that is simply not true. Who says all of these workers are Christians? Why did you assume they were all students?
It simply isn't the case.
You don't know what you're talking about.
</font>[/QUOTE]So where did you get your information that you know such truth?

When I was a student at SWBTS every worker (whether a student or not) employed by the seminary was a believer and showed membership in an SBC church.

 

[gb93433]

Originally posted by JGrayhound:

If you knew anything you would know that there was a very small number of people using this service, and of those that used it an even smaller amount were students (a VERY small amount, to be honest).

Does that mean there are very few students with children attending the seminary?

If you read anything at the time you would know that what the Baptist papers reported was quite different than what you report. From your source of information did they get pressured into making some changes?

Maybe you can answer the question: who pays for Mohler's radio program?

 

[gb93433]

Originally posted by Palmetto Boy:


Perhaps most astounding is the circular nature of some of these arguments. How is the school to provide good jobs and housing to students? That money has to come from somewhere. Anyone in favor of a tuition increase? Probably not.

Most of the money comes from the cooperative program.

 

[gb93433]

Originally posted by preachinjesus:
One of the constants on seminary campuses is the lack of legitimate wages given to student laborers who endure back breaking work while attempting to support a family and/or go to class. While I am sure that the seminary will do everything in its power to find these workers new positions somewhere else, I am troubled by the lack of respect given to the students by our seminaries. My simple experience at my former beloved seminary is that I was simply a number to certain people...and they did things to make them look better and not the Kingdom

As a student I was given great respect by those at the seminary. In fact they offered me a job that I would not have passed up if it were not for another focus. The only people I found who did not give me such great respect were those who were trustees from other states that made me feel like skum.

Though I have done work for a number of very wealthy people and by far the greatest respect I have been shown is by Dr. Dilday at SWBTS and my supervisor when I was a student then. Other than that it has been by non-believers in the world who I have done work for.

It is too bad that people cannot treat other as Phil 2 says. How else will we be able to reach others if we do not show them great respect. We must serve those we expect to reach. In serving them we humble ourselves.

 

[JGrayhound]

Originally posted by gb93433:
So where did you get your information that you know such truth?

When I was a student at SWBTS every worker (whether a student or not) employed by the seminary was a believer and showed membership in an SBC church.

Just because it was so at SWBTS does not mean that is how it is at Southern.

My info is firsthand, not from slanted articles by ABP.

 

[JGrayhound]

Originally posted by gb93433:
Does that mean there are very few students with children attending the seminary?

No. It means that very few students were using the childcare facility. Very few.

If you read anything at the time you would know that what the Baptist papers reported was quite different than what you report. From your source of information did they get pressured into making some changes?

I wouldn't believe everything you read...especially from ABP.

Maybe you can answer the question: who pays for Mohler's radio program?

I think this is irrelevant to the discussion at hand.
I also think that any amount spent on his radio program is well spent. It is a great ministry.

 

[The Shogun]

Salem Broadcasting pays for Mohler's radio program. Salem pays all the bills and built the studio. The program and SBTS are completely separate.

gb93433 is bitter and living in the past - probably never been to Southern and has no idea of what he is talking..... If Southern would have HIRED an additional 94 people he would have fussed that it was a waste of money and somehow twisted it to say something anti-Mohler..

 

[PastorSBC1303]

TheShogun, excellent points.

 

[Jimmy C]

My frame of reference is SWBTS, I personally know many current and former students - they needed thier jobs, and the cheap housing at the seminary in order for them to be able to attend. Idont know the situation at southern other than what I have read - but I am disturbed that they would fire thier student workers to bring in a VERY secualr company.

In my opinion, the seminaries - SWBTS included, have forgotton that their students are thier primary customer. The seminaries are constantly changing catalogues and introducing new requirements that make it harder for a seminary student to complete thier degree. And now to help pay for it as well.

They are building edifices to themselves - and then complaining that they dont have enough money to pay the students. At SWBTS they built this conference center monstrocity - that is constantly losing money, and is too expensive for most churches to use. Paige is building a library onto his house (why not dedicate an area in the library on campus to his works?) and now they are talking about building a new chapel - why? they cant fill the current one! The answer given is so that they can hold graduation on campus - lets spend millions of dollars on a new chapel so that one time a year we can host graduation.

Back in the day (and yes I am as guilty of having "good ol days syndrome" as anyone) of Dilday and prior - the seminary was a real family - they took care of each other, and tried to help the students - that day has seemingly passed.

 

[bobbyd]

Upset about it not being all about me? Apparently you are misreading not only what i am saying, but me as well.
When i was forced to move out of my apartment with 2 months notice with my 7 month pregnant wife i was actually more upset for my neighbors. The folks living next door to us in our duplex was from Canada, only there for a couple of months, she too was pregnant and had limited opportunities for employment due to their school visa. We were able to buy a house and God provided for us quite comfortably, these folks struggled for a while.
And then there was the family of 5 living in the building next to ours, he had 6 months until he graduated, was from Africa and was planning on returning there...they too had a limited income, student visas, and could not just jump into a year long lease and really couldn't afford much more than the disrepaired house the seminary was providing for him.

These are just a couple of the many people who were my neighbors on Grinstead drive who were in either the same or a lot worst shape than us due to the seminary. So its not about me...i'm out of there, and i thank God for that every day.
I don't think i could have received a better education anywhere...it was top notch, and i have the utmost respect for my profs in the Graham School; but at this point i cannot recommend SBTS to anyone.

 

[JGrayhound]

Your rants about Southern betray the fact that you say you think it was not all about you.

It is unfortuante that you and your friends had to move elsewhere, but is that enough reason for you to bash Southern and bash Dr.Mohler?

If you were not personally offended, would you bash him or the school?
I think not. This shows that you are being selfish about your experience there.

I am sorry you felt betrayed or whatever, but your bitterness seems to have gone into an area of sin. Maybe you should deal with this rather than bashing the school and Dr.Mohler because your feelings were hurt.