Concepts of sin

[JonC]

“Sin is rebellion against God, but more seriously yet, Judaism considers it the debasement of man’s proper nature. Punishment is not primarily retribution; it is chastisement, as a father chastises his children, to remind them of their proper dignity and character. Repentance is therefore in Hebrew teshuvah, returning, man’s turning back to his truest nature.” (Judaism, Arthur Hertzberg)

My first thought was why Hertzberg used the words “more seriously yet” because we typically consider sin as rebellion against God the most serious offense. Upon reflection (and continued reading) this debasement is rebellion, but it is a more serious rebellion as it is ontological rather than merely an act of rebellion. It is what we Christians often call Sin (with a capital “S”).

 

[MartyF]

I believe you missed some of the Biblical background here.

God made us in his image. We are idols representing God. So when he says "our proper nature" he means that our proper nature is to be like God. Being like God is our truest nature.

 

[HankD]

The universal definition of sin:
1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

for the believer:
Romans 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

James 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

 

[Van]

Any action (thought or deed) that results in storing up wrath against the individual can be called a sin, or offense, or transgression. If a born anew individuals does something that goes against God, and would result in storing up wrath if unsaved, do we call that a "sin?" Nope because being justified, it is just as if we did not sin. So on the one hand we need to be aware we are missing the mark, and strive to do better, but on the other hand, we need to not let our faults hinder our effort to serve Christ, because He uses "broken reeds."

 

[JonC]

I believe you missed some of the Biblical background here.

God made us in his image. We are idols representing God. So when he says "our proper nature" he means that our proper nature is to be like God. Being like God is our truest nature.

Not me (I was looking at the Jewish concept of sin). My definition is that sin is missing the mark in terms of God's righteousness.

 

[JonC]

The universal definition of sin:
1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

for the believer:
Romans 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

James 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

I agree.

What do you think about Paul's distinction between sin and transgression?

 

[HankD]

I agree.

What do you think about Paul's distinction between sin and transgression?

passage?

 

[JonC]

passage?

I'm considering Romans 5 and the distinction Paul makes regarding a transgression and sin reigning apart from a violation of a given command (sin reigning between Adam and the giving of the Law).

Or is Paul just highlighting that sin existed apart from it being a transgression of a stated command?

 

[HankD]

I'm considering Romans 5 and the distinction Paul makes regarding a transgression and sin reigning apart from a violation of a given command (sin reigning between Adam and the giving of the Law).

Or is Paul just highlighting that sin existed apart from it being a transgression of a stated command?

I think so Jon, i believe being in the image and likeness of our GOD gives us a conscience which says a natural law from GOD - DO UNTO OTHERS AS YOU WOULD HAVE THEM DO UNTO YOU.

This says to us - You dont want to get hit in the head with a hammer so dont do it to others

 

[JonC]

I think so Jon, i believe being in the image and likeness of our GOD gives us a conscience which says a natural law from GOD - DO UNTO OTHERS AS YOU WOULD HAVE THEM DO UNTO YOU.

This says to us - You dont want to get hit in the head with a hammer so dont do it to others

I agree. The law magnified sins that were already present.

 

[Yeshua1]

I believe you missed some of the Biblical background here.

God made us in his image. We are idols representing God. So when he says "our proper nature" he means that our proper nature is to be like God. Being like God is our truest nature.

Hard to be like that when we have sin natures!

 

[Yeshua1]

“Sin is rebellion against God, but more seriously yet, Judaism considers it the debasement of man’s proper nature. Punishment is not primarily retribution; it is chastisement, as a father chastises his children, to remind them of their proper dignity and character. Repentance is therefore in Hebrew teshuvah, returning, man’s turning back to his truest nature.” (Judaism, Arthur Hertzberg)

My first thought was why Hertzberg used the words “more seriously yet” because we typically consider sin as rebellion against God the most serious offense. Upon reflection (and continued reading) this debasement is rebellion, but it is a more serious rebellion as it is ontological rather than merely an act of rebellion. It is what we Christians often call Sin (with a capital “S”).

Think worst sin would be pride, as that makes us into idol worshiping anything other then God!