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Concerning the Collection for the Saints

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Steadfast Fred

Active Member
1 Corinthians 16:1 (KJV) Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye.
2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

Question: Was this a command for a weekly laying by in store? or was it a one-time event? Was 'the week' in verse 2 meant to mean a succession of weeks? or just one week in particular?
 
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ktn4eg

New Member
In this particular passage, it would seem that specifically it was referring to a one-time event (to gather together each individual church member's offering [i.e., "a Gentile's" offering] to help out the poor [i.e., "former Jewish heritage's"] saints in Jerusalem--IOW, here's a beautiful example of an ethnically-despised group of people living in the most morally-depraved Gentile community [Corinth, Greece] willingly giving a LOVE OFFERING of that which God had prospered them to those people who, at least at one time, would have considered them to be the "lowest of the low ["dogs"])!!

Was this just a one-time event? Yes, in the very strictest sense.

Could it be cited as one of the most obvious NT demonstrations of what a changed heart after one has received Christ as savior ("ALL things are become NEW") will do for even the vilest group and most-looked-down-upon ethnic groups? YES!!!

Does this mean that (in today's society) that even the most despised and hated Islamic terrorist could potentially one day give of what God has "prospered" him to a struggling IFB church located in your own community?

Makes you wonder, doesn't it? ;)

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"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen" ---- Hebrews 11:1 (KJV)
 
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billwald

New Member
As Acts reported, when the church was very young, Jesus' statements were interpreted as meaning that he would return in a few weeks, maybe months. Surely not years. The believers gave away all their spare cash and property to the poor, thinking that they would not need it because Jesus would bail them out. It didn't work that way and the Jerusalem Church had nothing to fall back on when hard times came.

As time passed and Jesus did not return, the "event horizon" of the Church moved further and further into the future. Now that 2000 years has passed, what should be OUR event horizon? Should we not work to make THIS world a better place for our great-grand children?
 
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ktn4eg

New Member
Don't mean to harp on what some may say are "majoring on the minors/monoring on the majors," but I do not preclude the possibility that this "one-time" collection, therefore, can NEVER, EVER be cited as a precedent for a local church asking for voluntary offerings for benevolence(s), etc.

If one will read my previous post in its entirety (esp. its third paragraph onward), one will see that I believe that this incident COULD be used as an example for local churches to do such things, should the HS lay such on their hearts.

IMHO, oftentimes we find ourselves (and I will include myself as well) tending to become too short-sighted in "writing off" certain individuals/groups simple because they don't always fit so nicely into our own little boxes that we call "The Bible's ONLY 'TEST(S) OF FELLOWSHIP."

Maybe.....just maybe.....that person who may look a shade or two different in his/her skin coloring, accent, style of clothing, etc., may just need someone such as you or me to tell them about Jesus.
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It worked for someone who once prided himself in his pharasitical fervor to the extent that he agreed that Bible-believing people deserve not only to be harassed, but also be imprisoned or even put to death (Saul of Tarsus), didn't it? :thumbsup:
 
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billwald

New Member
If the IP wonders if existing congregations should financially support old existing congregations then I think an old congregation should stand on its own two feet or fold.

If the IP is about helping the poor, then yes, we should help those who poor because of circumstances beyond their control and blood is thicker than water.
 
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Gerhard Ebersoehn

Active Member
Site Supporter
I once asked on this forum, BaptistBoard 'Other Denominations', the question - in fact, I started a thread on the topic - the question, Was 1Corinthians 15 a sermon that Paul preached - preached always as his main theme of Proclamation, IN THE CHURCH?

I expected overwhelming reacting on that thread. There scarcely was any.

Now whatever others may think, I believe the Resurrection was Paul's MAIN 'theme' and not one week in his life went by that He did not PREACH 1Corinthians 15 IN THE CHURCH --- ON THE SABBATH DAY.

That makes 1Corinthians 16:1 further, an ANNOUNCEMENT "concerning the collection for the saints that (Paul) had given order about to the Churches ..." WITH HIS SERMON ON THE RESURRECTION ON THE SABBATH, that, "On the First Day of the week every one of you [HERE PRESENT TO HEAR THE SERMON ON THE SABBATH] put aside and save up as he prospered ...".

"_Now_ concerning ..." is Paul announcing directly after he had finished his sermon --- ON THE SABBATH DAY --- "... concerning the collection ... on the First day."


Instead of implying worship on Sundays, the passage implies worship ON THE SABBATH and 'business' relegated to the next day, "on the First Day of the week".

 
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ktn4eg

New Member
Gerhard Ebersoehn said:
I once asked on this forum, BaptistBoard 'Other Denominations', the question - in fact, I started a thread on the topic - the question, Was 1Corinthians 15 a sermon that Paul preached - preached always as his main theme of Proclamation, IN THE CHURCH?

I expected overwhelming reacting on that thread. There scarcely was any.

Now whatever others may think, I believe the Resurrection was Paul's MAIN 'theme' and not one week in his life went by that He did not PREACH 1Corinthians 15 IN THE CHURCH --- ON THE SABBATH DAY.

That makes 1Corinthians 16:1 further, an ANNOUNCEMENT "concerning the collection for the saints that (Paul) had given order about to the Churches ..." WITH HIS SERMON ON THE RESURRECTION ON THE SABBATH, that, "On the First Day of the week every one of you [HERE PRESENT TO HEAR THE SERMON ON THE SABBATH] put aside and save up as he prospered ...".

"_Now_ concerning ..." is Paul announcing directly after he had finished his sermon --- ON THE SABBATH DAY --- "... concerning the collection ... on the First day."


Instead of implying worship on Sundays, the passage implies worship ON THE SABBATH and 'business' relegated to the next day, "on the First Day of the week".
Click to expand...

I've read the OP several times, and, unless one reads between the lines [I've tried "reading between the lines," but when I did, I didn't see ANYTHING!!] as YOU quite obviously are guilty of doing, I FAIL to find ANYTHING in the OP that specifically states (or, in YOUR case, "implying...," "implies....") 'worship ON THE SABBATH and "business" relegated to the next day, 'on the First Day of the week'."

IOW, STOP TRYING TO DERAIL THIS THREAD!!!

If YOU want to discuss "SABBATH" vs. 'the First Day of the week' issues, THEN START YOUR OWN THREAD!! :BangHead:
 
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ktn4eg

New Member
Bumping this thread. You mean that after three days and three nights + that no one has come up with anything new to add to our discussion?!!? :smilewinkgrin:
 
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Gerhard Ebersoehn

Active Member
Site Supporter
If irksome GE does not challenge your vanities, your thread will die a still death.

Nowhere did GE refer to the OP -sorry that I did not acknowledge the OP being yours, the impersonal KTM.

My post was indissolubly connected with the text. again, my apologies for being so impersonal.

Indissolubly relevant to the text of 1Corinthians as IS the first verses of chapter 16 TO the last verses of chapter 15. I guess Paul would never have guessed one unknown KTM of BB a good two thousand years later would take his letter so personally as virtually a personal attack and insult.

 
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Steadfast Fred

Active Member
Sorry GE, but I have to agree with ktn4eg here.

One would have to read between the lines to pull a either a Sabbath meeting or a business meeting out of this passage

There is no indication in the previous chapter of Paul speaking on a Sabbath.

We do know from the book of the Acts of the Apostles that the early Chirstians met on the first day of the week IN THE TEMPLE and PREACHING.

Acts 5:42 (KJV) And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ.

Daily does not leave the first day of the week out, GE... it includes it. They both taught and preached (shouldn't that be praught?) in the Temple and from house to house.
 
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Gerhard Ebersoehn

Active Member
Site Supporter
Steadfast Fred said:
Sorry GE, but I have to agree with ktn4eg here.

One would have to read between the lines to pull a either a Sabbath meeting or a business meeting out of this passage

There is no indication in the previous chapter of Paul speaking on a Sabbath.

We do know from the book of the Acts of the Apostles that the early Chirstians met on the first day of the week IN THE TEMPLE and PREACHING.

Acts 5:42 (KJV) And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ.

Daily does not leave the first day of the week out, GE... it includes it. They both taught and preached (shouldn't that be praught?) in the Temple and from house to house.
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GE:

Like God loves all and saved all means all those whom He loves and all those whom he saved and not everybody who ever walked this earth, so, does 'daily worshipped', mean, worshipped every day-of-worship which never was anything than the Seventh Day Sabbath of the LORD GOD and never was every single day in succession without interruption.

MUCH is to be said about your unwarranted assertion.

I'll bring it to you step by step as God permit.

Only telling you now, The apostolic Church worshipped literally at the very first literally every day of the week. But that SOON STOPPED. It is my opinion it stopped before the first deacons were chosen, because the first deacons were chosen exactly so that the apostles themselves could be enabled to proclaim the Gospel 'full-time'. Read the first chapters of Acts, and compare the congregational set-up of the Jerusalem and first congregations with the congregational status quo of a few years after pentecost in the far away places where Christians were converted heathen. 'Daily worship' in the sense you allege the early Christians worshipped DID NOT EXIST. It is not true.



 
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Steadfast Fred

Active Member
Gerhard Ebersoehn said:

GE:

Like God loves all and saved all means all those whom He loves and all those whom he saved and not everybody who ever walked this earth, so, does 'daily worshipped', mean, worshipped every day-of-worship which never was anything than the Seventh Day Sabbath of the LORD GOD and never was every single day in succession without interruption.

MUCH is to be said about your unwarranted assertion.

I'll bring it to you step by step as God permit.

Only telling you now, The apostolic Church worshipped literally at the very first literally every day of the week. But that SOON STOPPED. It is my opinion it stopped before the first deacons were chosen, because the first deacons were chosen exactly so that the apostles themselves could be enabled to proclaim the Gospel 'full-time'. Read the first chapters of Acts, and compare the congregational set-up of the Jerusalem and first congregations with the congregational status quo of a few years after pentecost in the far away places where Christians were converted heathen. 'Daily worship' in the sense you allege the early Christians worshipped DID NOT EXIST. It is not true.



Click to expand...
Your argument is flawed, GE. Especially since we see the early Christians assembling on the first day of the week in the New Testament.
 
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Steadfast Fred

Active Member
Acts 20:7 (KJV) And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

When does that verse say that the Disciples assembled and Paul preached to them, GE? On the Sabbath? Nay, on the first day of the week.
 
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Gerhard Ebersoehn

Active Member
Site Supporter
Steadfast Fred said:
Sorry GE, but I have to agree with ktn4eg here.

One would have to read between the lines to pull a either a Sabbath meeting or a business meeting out of this passage

There is no indication in the previous chapter of Paul speaking on a Sabbath.

We do know from the book of the Acts of the Apostles that the early Chirstians met on the first day of the week IN THE TEMPLE and PREACHING.

Acts 5:42 (KJV) And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ.

Daily does not leave the first day of the week out, GE... it includes it. They both taught and preached (shouldn't that be praught?) in the Temple and from house to house.
Click to expand...


GE:

I like this, "One would have to read between the lines to pull a either a Sabbath meeting or a business meeting out of this passage”.

That is exactly true for the first part; not the second. It is exactly true one must read between the lines to pull a Sabbath meeting out of this passage; My point though is, it is exactly IMPOSSIBLE if one read between the lines to pull a business meeting out of this passage.

And it is impossible to disprove one must not read this passage between the lines; one MUST. The Resurrection was Paul’s STANDARD, SABBATHS’ sermon. To deny is to deny the Resurrection was Paul’s STANDARD, SABBATHS’ sermon, which denial not only is impossible to prove, but is impossible even to imagine! To allege the Resurrection was not Paul’s STANDARD, SABBATHS’ sermon, is as good as saying Paul said he was ashamed of the Gospel of Jesus Christ because it shows the weakness of God to raise The Dead.
 
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ktn4eg

New Member
Gerhard Ebersoehn said:
GE:

I like this, "One would have to read between the lines to pull a either a Sabbath meeting or a business meeting out of this passage”.

That is exactly true for the first part; not the second. It is exactly true one must read between the lines to pull a Sabbath meeting out of this passage; My point though is, it is exactly IMPOSSIBLE if one read between the lines to pull a business meeting out of this passage.

And it is impossible to disprove one must not read this passage between the lines; one MUST. The Resurrection was Paul’s STANDARD, SABBATHS’ sermon. To deny is to deny the Resurrection was Paul’s STANDARD, SABBATHS’ sermon, which denial not only is impossible to prove, but is impossible even to imagine! To allege the Resurrection was not Paul’s STANDARD, SABBATHS’ sermon, is as good as saying Paul said he was ashamed of the Gospel of Jesus Christ because it shows the weakness of God to raise The Dead.
Click to expand...

Thanks for doing such a good job of DERAILING THE INTENDED PURPOSE OF THE OP!!
 
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