Conditional election

[Dr. Walter]

Therefore. We can consider that "Jesus died for everybody without exception but that the blood he shed was applied to God's elect only and made effectual as a consequence of Christ's intercession at the Father's right hand"

Suffient for all but efficient for the elect? There is no question that the blood of Christ could have redeemed Satan and all the fallen angels as well as all mankind as it does not lack the value as it is infinite in value. Therefore, any limitations cannot be due to a limited value. The only limitations must be by design as its application is equal to its design. Was it designed by God for all sinners (angelic and human)?

Most believe in some form of limited atonement because they limit God's design for the atonement to only one class of sinners - human - thus excluding angelic sinners. Thus they believe in a limited design behind the atonement not purposed or applicable to all sinners without exception.

Conditional election would fit with limited design for atonement to all human sinners without exception based upon predetermined conditions for salvation.

Unconditional election would fit with limited design for atonment for those elected "TO" salvation "THROUGH" sanctification of the Spirit AND belief of the truth.

Conditional election assumes that all men either have faith by nature or are given faith at some point in order to meet the conditions of election. However, there are no explicit scriptues that support that view but rather contradict it (2 Thes. 3:2; Rom. 3:10-12; Isa. 64:7; Psa. 14:2-3).

Unconditional election points to specific scriptures that state in clear language that justifing faith is a work, gift of God and is "of grace" inseparable from regeneration (Acts 13:48; Eph. 2:8-10a; Jn. 6:29,37-45, 64-65; I Thes. 1:4-5; 2:13-14; I Cor. 1:26-31; etc.).

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Hey Doc Wally....Good Morning!!! :smilewinkgrin:

 

[Dr. Walter]

Hey Doc Wally....Good Morning!!! :smilewinkgrin:

Good morning to you to:type:

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Do angels sin? Guess so if you factor in Lucifer

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Suffient for all but efficient for the elect?

Basically.

There is no question that the blood of Christ could have redeemed Satan and all the fallen angels as well as all mankind as it does not lack the value as it is infinite in value. Therefore, any limitations cannot be due to a limited value.

following so far except the angels bit. There is a different treatment of angels that does not corrispond with human salvation.

The only limitations must be by design as its application is equal to its design.

I don't believe in God limiting his design. Salvation is available to all who avail themselves of it.

Was it designed by God for all sinners (angelic and human)?

Again two different treatments. Man's fall is not the same as the angelic fall. Both are treated differently. Judgement waits for both. However, a partial judgement has ensued for the fallen angelic host.

Most believe in some form of limited atonement because they limit God's design for the atonement to only one class of sinners - human - thus excluding angelic sinners.

yes this is true. Angels have already made their choices. They are just waiting for the judgement.

Thus they believe in a limited design behind the atonement not purposed or applicable to all sinners without exception.

If you include the angelic host yes.

Conditional election would fit with limited design for atonement to all human sinners without exception based upon predetermined conditions for salvation.

So much for that. It places salvation squarely in the hands of man or some greek understanding of fate.

Unconditional election would fit with limited design for atonment for those elected "TO" salvation "THROUGH" sanctification of the Spirit AND belief of the truth

. Are you saying Sanctification happens before salvation? What?

Conditional election assumes that all men either have faith by nature or are given faith at some point in order to meet the conditions of election. However, there are no explicit scriptues that support that view but rather contradict it (2 Thes. 3:2; Rom. 3:10-12; Isa. 64:7; Psa. 14:2-3).

Yes this is true.

Unconditional election points to specific scriptures that state in clear language that justifing faith is a work, gift of God and is "of grace" inseparable from regeneration (Acts 13:48; Eph. 2:8-10a; Jn. 6:29,37-45, 64-65; I Thes. 1:4-5; 2:13-14; I Cor. 1:26-31; etc.).

Yes this is true.

 

[quantumfaith]

Truth will out.:jesus:

EW&F, and TS: Just to be clear I am not limited atonement, nor unconditional adherent, nor irrresistible grace, nor most liket "totaly depravity" in the ways I see it defined by "reformers"/

 

[quantumfaith]

Suffient for all but efficient for the elect? There is no question that the blood of Christ could have redeemed Satan and all the fallen angels as well as all mankind as it does not lack the value as it is infinite in value. Therefore, any limitations cannot be due to a limited value. The only limitations must be by design as its application is equal to its design. Was it designed by God for all sinners (angelic and human)?

Most believe in some form of limited atonement because they limit God's design for the atonement to only one class of sinners - human - thus excluding angelic sinners. Thus they believe in a limited design behind the atonement not purposed or applicable to all sinners without exception.

Conditional election would fit with limited design for atonement to all human sinners without exception based upon predetermined conditions for salvation.

Unconditional election would fit with limited design for atonment for those elected "TO" salvation "THROUGH" sanctification of the Spirit AND belief of the truth.

Conditional election assumes that all men either have faith by nature or are given faith at some point in order to meet the conditions of election. However, there are no explicit scriptues that support that view but rather contradict it (2 Thes. 3:2; Rom. 3:10-12; Isa. 64:7; Psa. 14:2-3).

Unconditional election points to specific scriptures that state in clear language that justifing faith is a work, gift of God and is "of grace" inseparable from regeneration (Acts 13:48; Eph. 2:8-10a; Jn. 6:29,37-45, 64-65; I Thes. 1:4-5; 2:13-14; I Cor. 1:26-31; etc.).

Hello DW: Just curious, is your moniker here in BB taken from the Dr. Walter ...The Bible Answer Man?

 

[RAdam]

How then does any "avail" himself of this salvation if none understand and seek after God?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

How then does any "avail" himself of this salvation if none understand and seek after God?

Solely on the merits of the righteousness of Jesus Christ applied by the Holy Spirit according to unconditional election

 

[RAdam]

Solely on the merits of the righteousness of Jesus Christ applied by the Holy Spirit according to unconditional election

So it is the Lord which avails men of this salvation? Is that what you are saying?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

So it is the Lord which avails men of this salvation? Is that what you are saying?

Thats what your saying.

 

[RAdam]

Well, what say you? How does one avail himself of this salvation when the bible says none understand and seek after God?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Well, what say you? How does one avail himself of this salvation when the bible says none understand and seek after God?

Until they are saved

 

[RAdam]

Until they are saved

Well then, how do they enter this saved condition?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Well then, how do they enter this saved condition?

I dont know how do you?

 

[RAdam]

Why won't you just answer the question?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Why won't you just answer the question?

Adam, have you ever heard the expression, " Every system is perfectly designed to get the results that are achieved?"

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Adam, have you ever heard the expression, " Every system is perfectly designed to get the results that are achieved?"

I am just a wee Presbyterian. Not smart like ye Baptists. And I believe in predestination. A mon's a wise man or a fool by the willing of the Almighty, and that we should not quarrel. Let us thank Him that he made us (Presbyterians) clever. Hoot man!!

Next clip: Scotsman in kilts walking into the sunset wearing his kilt & playing the Old Spice song. LOL:laugh::laugh::laugh:

 

[quantumfaith]

Well then, how do they enter this saved condition?

Romans 10: 9-11

If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord", and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. As scriptures says, "Anyone who believes in him shall never be put to shame." (TNIV)

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Romans 10: 9-11

If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord", and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. As scriptures says, "Anyone who believes in him shall never be put to shame." (TNIV)

Ohhhh, you gave it away matey. Scotsmen never give anything away. But try this, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved" Romans 10:13

Just a gigolo, every were I go......:smilewinkgrin: