Conditional Immortality! Do You Understand It? Do You Believe It?

[Mark Corbett]

Death is the state of existence of eternal separation from God.

Many Christians have been taught your definition of death, but actually your definition is not supported by a careful study of the word death in the Bible. I presented the results of my study of how the Bible uses the word death in a post on my on blog, here.

I give an edited excerpt here:

A Possible Point of Confusion

Most Bible-believing Christians, including myself, believe that a part of us (usually called our “soul” or our “spirit”) consciously lives in God’s presence in between the time we die and the time when we are resurrected. Because we believe that a part of us lives on after death, there is a possibility that some might think that the word “death” in the Bible does not mean the complete loss of all ability to feel, think, or be aware of anything. However, when the Bible speaks of death prior to the final judgment it is focused on what happens to our bodies:

James 2:26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

Notice that the part of us that is dead when we die is “the body”. And of course, our dead body will no longer feel, think, or be aware of anything.

Now let’s start to examine both the literal and metaphorical meanings of “death” in English, and then in the Bible.

The Literal Meaning of “Death” in the Bible

The word “death” is something that all people have a basic understanding of because all people have seen it. Even children have seen many dead animals, and most of us have seen the dead bodies of people. The basic meaning of death when speaking of any person is that all the essential biological activities of the person have permanently ceased (when we say “permanently”, we mean that short of God’s miraculous intervention they have ceased and there is no reasonable expectation that they could resume). These biological activities include breathing, circulating blood, and also include the ability to be conscious and feel and think. Everyone knows that if someone can still feel and think, they are not “literally dead”.

This commonsense, literal meaning of death is also the literal meaning of death in the Bible. The context of the following verses makes clear that when they use the word “death” they are referring to literal, physical death:

Matthew 10:21 "Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; children will rebel against their parents and have them put to death.

Acts 13:28 Though they found no proper ground for a death sentence, they asked Pilate to have him executed.

Philippians 1:20 I eagerly expect and hope that I will in no way be ashamed, but will have sufficient courage so that now as always Christ will be exalted in my body, whether by life or by death.

Here is a partial list of more examples where “death” is used with its normal, literal meaning in the New Testament:

Matthew 15:4, Matthew 20:18, Matthew 26:66, Luke 2:26, Luke 22:33, Luke 23:15, Luke 23:22, John 21:19, Acts 23:29, Acts 25:11, Acts 26:31, Acts 28:18, Romans 8:38, Philippians 2:27, Hebrews 7:23, Hebrews 9:16

Metaphorical Meanings of Death in English and in the Bible

I was once blessed with the opportunity to take a graduate level course on the science of defining words. The basic procedure to follow when seeking to find all the definitions a word has (both literal and metaphorical) is to look for sentences where the context of the sentence makes the meaning clear.

Like many words, the word “death” can be used with metaphorical meanings. Here are two examples:

1. When Joey saw his brother had broken Mom’s favorite vase, he said, “You are so dead.”

2. The car won’t start; the engine is dead.

The first example combines hyperbole (it’s not likely the mom will literally kill her son) with a figure of speech called prolepsis. Prolepsis is used when we speak of something we expect to happen in the future as if it has already occurred. In the example above, Joey is certain that his brother will be punished even though it hasn’t happened yet.

The second example involves a metaphorical use of the word “dead”. Literal “death” refers to the state of a formerly living being which is no longer functioning. For people and animals this means the dead person or animal is no longer breathing, its heart is no longer pumping, and it is no longer able to think or feel anything. It is easy to see how this meaning can be extended metaphorically to an engine which in no longer able to run.

We find the same types of metaphorical meanings for death in the Bible.

With regard to prolepsis, the clearest example is probably found in the life of a king named Abimelech. The ESV provides a literal translation:

ESV Genesis 20:3 But God came to Abimelech in a dream by night and said to him, "Behold, you are a dead man because of the woman whom you have taken, for she is a man's wife."

The NIV translation makes it clear that this is an example of prolepsis:

NIV Genesis 20:3 But God came to Abimelek in a dream one night and said to him, "You are as good as dead because of the woman you have taken; she is a married woman."

The Bible also uses “death” with metaphorical meaning. Many Christians refer to this as “spiritual death”. The term “spiritual death” is not found in the Bible. It is alright to use this term as long as we are careful to let the Bible define “spiritual death”.

“Spiritual death” refers to a situation where people who are clearly still physically living are called “dead”. Here is an example:

Romans 8:6 The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace.
7 The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so.
8 Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God.

When in verse 6 Paul writes that the mind controlled by the flesh is “death”, it seems very likely that he means the same thing that he means in verses 7 and 8 when he says that the same mind is unable to submit to God’s will and the person with that kind of mind is unable to please God. We can easily see how this meaning is derived from the literal meaning of “death”. Literal death occurs when a human body is no longer able to do what it was intended to do. So it makes sense that metaphorically death could refer to a human mind which is no longer able to do what God intended it to do. God intended human minds to understand and submit to His will and to please Him, but the mind of the unredeemed is unable to do what it was designed and intended to do.

The metaphorical meaning of dead as “unresponsive” can also be used in a positive way. Consider this example (a different Greek word from the examples above is used for “dead” here (an adjective is used) but the range of both literal and metaphorical meanings overlaps with the Greek word for death used in the examples above):

Romans 6:11 In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus.

Here, Paul is urging us to be unresponsive to temptation in the same way that a dead body is unresponsive to the world around it.

We have identified two types of nonliteral meanings for “death” which are found in the Bible:

1. “death” can be used proleptically to mean “good as dead”, “doomed to die”, to refer to someone who is not yet dead but is certain to be dead if their situation is not changed

2. “death” can be used to refer to someone who is nonresponsive to influences either in a good way of being “dead” to temptation or in a bad way of being “dead” to the will of God.

I think we have a good, if not exhaustive and detailed, list of definitions for “death” in the New Testament:

Like most words, “death” can mean a number of things. But it can’t mean just anything. It does not make sense to use the word “death” to describe a situation where people actually continue to feel and think forever and ever and never actually die. It is fine to say that “death” is used metaphorically in the Bible (it certainly is!), but that doesn’t mean it can mean just anything. “Death” is used to mean either “literally dead”, “doomed to die,” or “nonresponsive”.

 

[The Biblicist]

I like the name Mark, also. Some thoughts I have about your statement.

1. The Conditionalist case does not rest on apollumi meaning "annihilation". The Conditionalists I know will point out that apollumi has a range of meaning (including "to render useless" which, incidentally, John Stackhouse jr. uses to establish is case for Conditionalism) but argue that usage in a given context is determinative of meaning. It seems to me, however, that you are arguing that appolumi always means "to render useless". If so what do you make of texts like Matt. 2:13; 12:14; 21:41; 27:20; Mark 3:6; 9: 22; Luke 6:9 where the ending of a person's life is in view?

I never argued that it always means "to render useless" however, that is precisely its meaning in texts dealing with the eternity of the soul.

2. I also think Conditionalists will happily concede your argument that "man kills the body to render it useless" because this is all bound up with the destruction of the body (whether by the initial act of killing or by the decompositionl of the body). I am not sure how your definition of "to kill" helps you.

You have misunderstood what I said. Man is trying to kill the soul, but cannot do that. Therefore, he kills the body in order to prevent the soul from using the body as the vehicle of expression for the soul.

[QUOTE="Darren J. Clark, post: 2323673, member: 13374"3. In any case, by quoting Matt 10:28 you seem to recognise that "to kill" and "to destroy" are juxtaposed in a way that sets them in parallel. Since being killed ipso facto means one loses the faculty of consciousness, and since you are arguing that "to kill" and "to destroy" have the same implication or meaning in Matt 10:28, is it not natural to think that being "destroyed" also entails the loss of the faculty of consciousness? I am interested in your thoughts on this.[/QUOTE]

No, I do not recognize or admit that "to kill" is synonymous with "to destroy" nor are they in juxtaposition with each other for several reasons. First the body is material and can be killed while he expicitly states the soul cannot be killed. Second, the soul is immaterial, and the proof is that it continues to exist after the death of the body, thus separate and distinct from the body.Third, God cannot "destroy" the body during the period that exists between the death of the physical body and the Great White judgement seat as none are cast into Gehenna until after the Second coming of Christ, therefore the soul continues to exist but not in the state of life but in the state of separation (death).

 

[Mark Corbett]

Tell me what you think the first death is?

Aaron, thanks for asking! James helps us with this:

ESV James 2:26 For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.

At the first death, only our body is dead. Our body is no longer able to feel or think anything. Thus, the first death involves the complete cessation of all the normal functions of our body.

And although our soul separates from our body at death, death does not mean separation. If that were true, our soul would be just as dead as our body, since the soul is separated from the body and the the body from the soul.

Please also read comment #41 where I give a much more extended and detailed explanation of the various meanings of death found in the bible. Thanks!

 

[The Biblicist]

Many Christians have been taught your definition of death, but actually your definition is not supported by a careful study of the word death in the Bible.

Incorrect! It is supported by a careful study of Scripture in many places. For example, Ephesians 2:1 Paul is speaking to phyically alive people who were nevertheless "dead" in a specific sense or in the sphere of "trespasses and sins." Furthermore, later in Ephesians 4:18 they had been "alienated from the life of God" due to the very same issue (sinful nature) but were yet physically alive. In Isaiah 59:2 sin "separated" them from an omnipresent God. Adam in fact did die "in the day he ate" but not physically (Gen. 5:5). The reversing of this state proves this. What is born of Spirit is NOT FLESH but the spirit, thus what is "quickened" is not flesh but the spirit of man.

You are doing the typically JW, SDA argument which isolates terms to the animalistic nature of man while ignorning that animals (who have physical bodies) are not made in the "image" of God who is INVISIBLE who is "spirit" and that this image is restored by an act of creation defined as quickening (Eph. 2:1, 5, 10). So your following evidence is merely one sided.

 

[Darren J. Clark]

W

I'm sure you have, but saying that the cessation of being is the everlasting point does violence to the simple, straightforward and succinct maxim stated by Christ.

They will suffer forever. Not temporarily.

But if you don't yield to the Scripture, there's nothing I can say that will change your mind.

Where did Jesus specifically say that sinners will suffer forever in those exact words?

 

[Mark Corbett]

I noticed in the OP it showed the definition of immortality as "eternal life"

I took that as an assertion of the two being synonymous (immortality = eternal life)

. . . I simply asked for biblical support that immortality = eternal life

I didn't think you supported the premise with anything other than mere assertion. And saying every on the street understands it your way is error, imho.

James, thanks for asking about the assertion that immortality = eternal life.

Since immortality means living forever, and eternal life means living forever, I think most people would just assume that immortality = eternal life. But it always helps to have clear, explicit Biblical support, so here it is:

ESV Romans 2:6 He will render to each one according to his works: 7 to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life;

 

[Darren J. Clark]

First, the English word "hell" is used to translate two very different Greek words - Hades and Gehenna. Scripture says God can destroy both the body and the soul in Gehenna, the location of the Lake of Fire. (Matthew 10:28) I believe the word translated "destroy" was meant to convey the idea of putting an end to the existence of body and soul. But scripture also says the lost are conveyed to Hades when they physically die, and they are punished with torment in accordance with the wrath they stored up during their physical lifetime. i believe after God's perfect justice is satisfied, the lost are destroyed.

To support this view I point to the verses that say the punishment of some will be more tolerable than the punishment of others. Thus it appears the punishment will be tailored to the individual sins of the lost person. Eternal torment OTOH appears to provide one punishment for all, thus is less likely to be the correct view.

I am a Conditionalist. What would you describe yourself as?

 

[Van]

I think I presented my view with clarity. Since not all "conditionalists" agree with my view, I am reluctant to label myself. If you can link to a short specific definition, I will either accept it or tell you why not.

 

[Mark Corbett]

Incorrect! It is supported by a careful study of Scripture in many places. For example, Ephesians 2:1 Paul is speaking to phyically alive people who were nevertheless "dead" in a specific sense or in the sphere of "trespasses and sins."

Yes, in Ephesians 2:1 Paul does speak to physically alive people are "dead" in another sense:

ESV Ephesians 2:1 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins

I believe that the metaphorical meaning of death here in Ephesians 2:1 is basically the same as in Romans 8:6, where Paul also speaks of those who are literally alive as having a mind which is metaphorically dead (I explained death in this passage in a quote above):


Romans 8:6 The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace.
7 The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so.
8 Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God.

When in verse 6 Paul writes that the mind controlled by the flesh is “death”, it seems very likely that he means the same thing that he means in verses 7 and 8 when he says that the same mind is unable to submit to God’s will and the person with that kind of mind is unable to please God. We can easily see how this meaning is derived from the literal meaning of “death”. Literal death occurs when a human body is no longer able to do what it was intended to do. So it makes sense that metaphorically death could refer to a human mind which is no longer able to do what God intended it to do. God intended human minds to understand and submit to His will and to please Him, but the mind of the unredeemed is unable to do what it was designed and intended to do.

The metaphorical meaning of dead as “unresponsive” can also be used in a positive way. Consider this example (a different Greek word from the examples above is used for “dead” here (an adjective is used) but the range of both literal and metaphorical meanings overlaps with the Greek word for death used in the examples above):

Romans 6:11 In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus.

The meaning "unresponsive to God's will" fits the context of Ephesians 2:1 quite well. How is this meaning a problem for Conditional Immortality?

 

[Mark Corbett]

Are your sort always this condescending?

Yes, it seems you are!

Note: If you are not TCassidy, you may need to go back and look at comment #36 to understand this comment.

TCassidy, when we respond to a comment, we keep in mind that not only the person we are responding to, but potentially many others as well, may be reading it. This even includes some who are not native speakers of English. It is not condescending to occasionally include a quick definition in parentheses of a word which is relatively rare. Perhaps we were wrong to think that all potential readers of this blog would know what a lexicon is and what prima facie means, but we certainly were not trying to be condescending.

 

[The Biblicist]

Yes, in Ephesians 2:1 Paul does speak to physically alive people are "dead" in another sense:

ESV Ephesians 2:1 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins

I believe that the metaphorical meaning of death here in Ephesians 2:1 is basically the same as in Romans 8:6, where Paul also speaks of those who are literally alive as having a mind which is metaphorically dead (I explained death in this passage in a quote above):

Sorry, but your answer will not bear up to the context. The remedy for the contextual "dead" in this passage is to be "quickened" which is further described as being "saved" (vv. 5, 8) and further defined as the creative work of God (v 10). You also avoided the fact that this same state of existence called "dead" is further described as being "alienated from the life of God" (Eph. 4:18) which is not metaphorical life but actual eternal life that comes from God as many other passages bear out. Moreover, being "quickened" has the "spirit" of man in view (Jn.3:6) and those "born of the Spirit" are those who "live in the Spirit (Gal. 5:25). Your position simply will not stand up to any critical examination of the total Biblical context and evidences.

Moreover, man does not have a "metaphorical" spirit but an actual spirit and it is the spirit that is being quickened from a previous "dead" state. Not a previous non-existent state but a state of existing in a separated condition from the life, light, holiness and love of God. Quickening unites the spirit of man with the life, light, love, and holiness of God as a creative act that restores the moral "image" (Eph. 4:24; Col. 3:10).

Romans 8:6

The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace.
7 The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so.
8 Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God.

In this context "death" is being contrasted to "life and peace" as a state of existence rather than a contrast between non-existence and existence. Death here is a "hostile" state of existence toward God. A lost man is living in a state of spiritual existence that is hostile to God. A saved man who allows the law of indwelling sin to rule in the mind is separated from the active influence of God's Spirit over his mind and thus over his life, because as a man thinketh so is he. In this mental state of separation from the active influence of the Spirit of God the works of the flesh will be manifest and the Spirit will be grieved in a true child of God.

 

[JamesL]

James, thanks for asking about the assertion that immortality = eternal life.

Since immortality means living forever, and eternal life means living forever, I think most people would just assume that immortality = eternal life. But it always helps to have clear, explicit Biblical support, so here it is:

ESV Romans 2:6 He will render to each one according to his works: 7 to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life;

In my opinion, if this one point fails then the whole doctrine unravels. I think it's been built on this one premise to that extent.

One thing that I can't get on board with (at least yet) is a mere assertion that "eternal life" means "living forever"

One difficulty with the premise of eternal life meaning "live forever" is that eternal life is presented in two manners in scripture:
1) a present possession
2) a future attainment

Interestingly, when it's posed as a present possession, the sole condition is faith. But when presented as a future attainment, there are many conditions - godly living, leaving family, etc.

Also interesting is that the future aspect of eternal life is presented as a reward or inheritance.

I see it near impossible to press a "living forever" definition onto the phrase in every instance, which seems to be the position you're offering

 

[The Biblicist]

In my opinion, if this one point fails then the whole doctrine unravels. I think it's been built on this one premise to that extent.

One thing that I can't get on board with (at least yet) is a mere assertion that "eternal life" means "living forever"

One difficulty with the premise of eternal life meaning "live forever" is that eternal life is presented in two manners in scripture:
1) a present possession
2) a future attainment

Interestingly, when it's posed as a present possession, the sole condition is faith. But when presented as a future attainment, there are many conditions - godly living, leaving family, etc.

Also interesting is that the future aspect of eternal life is presented as a reward or inheritance.

I see it near impossible to press a "living forever" definition onto the phrase in every instance, which seems to be the position you're offering

The problem is the definition of "life" and "death". They interpret these terms as existing and non-existing. That kind of definition does not hold up to the overall Biblical teaching. Eternal life and live forever are synonyms when "life" and "live" are properly defined to be a RELATIONSHIP with God who IS life. Lost people are presently without that relationship and are "alienated from the life of God" (Eph. 4:18) but still EXISTING with regard to biological life but without spiritual life or spiritual union (relationship) with God.

 

[JamesL]

The problem is the definition of "life" and "death". They interpret these terms as existing and non-existing. That kind of definition does not hold up to the overall Biblical teaching. Eternal life and live forever are synonyms when "life" and "live" are properly defined to be a RELATIONSHIP with God who IS life. Lost people are presently without that relationship and are "alienated from the life of God" (Eph. 4:18) but still EXISTING with regard to biological life but without spiritual life or spiritual union (relationship) with God.

I agree. I probably should have noted the streamlined thought in their interpretation:
Immortality = eternal life = living forever = existing forever

I believe that to be illegitimate totality transfer, and the entirety of the doctrine rests on this error

 

[The Biblicist]

Here is the bottom line. God "is spirit" as that is his substance. He does not have a "metaphorical" spirit but "is" in reality "spirit" nature. Man has a spirit nature distinct from the flesh or material substance (jn. 3:6). He does not have a "metaphorical" spirit but he has a real "spirit" nature. Life, light, love and holiness are found in God alone and only spiritual union with God can experience the life, light, love and holiness of God. Anyone alienated from the life of God is alienated from the light, love and holiness of God and is in a spiritual state of depravity (without holiness), darkness (without light), dead (without the life of God) and enmity (without love for God). God "is spirit" and those who worship God must worship him "in spirit" and if the spirit of man is alienated from the life of God there is no worship, there is no love, there is light, there is no righteousness.

So, to be "dead" in spirit simply means their human spirit is "alienated from the life of God" and thus depraved, darkened and at enmity toward God. Those whose spirit is "quickened" (made alive) are in spiritual union with God and therefore in spiritual union with the life, light, love, and holiness of God.

Hence, to be "dead" spiritually is to EXIST in a state of spiritual separation from God.
Hence, to be "alive" spiritually is to EXIST in a state of spiritual union with God. - end of story.

 

[InTheLight]

Note: If you are not TCassidy, you may need to go back and look at comment #36 to understand this comment.

TCassidy, when we respond to a comment, we keep in mind that not only the person we are responding to, but potentially many others as well, may be reading it.

So this is a tag team job?

 

[JamesL]

....

The Literal Meaning of “Death” in the Bible

The word “death” is something that all people have a basic understanding of because all people have seen it. Even children have seen many dead animals, and most of us have seen the dead bodies of people. The basic meaning of death when speaking of any person is that all the essential biological activities of the person have permanently ceased (when we say “permanently”, we mean that short of God’s miraculous intervention they have ceased and there is no reasonable expectation that they could resume). These biological activities include breathing, circulating blood, and also include the ability to be conscious and feel and think. Everyone knows that if someone can still feel and think, they are not “literally dead”.

This commonsense, literal meaning of death is also the literal meaning of death in the Bible. The context of the following verses makes clear that when they use the word “death” they are referring to literal, physical death:

Matthew 10:21 "Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; children will rebel against their parents and have them put to death.

Acts 13:28 Though they found no proper ground for a death sentence, they asked Pilate to have him executed.

Philippians 1:20 I eagerly expect and hope that I will in no way be ashamed, but will have sufficient courage so that now as always Christ will be exalted in my body, whether by life or by death.

Here is a partial list of more examples where “death” is used with its normal, literal meaning in the New Testament:

Matthew 15:4, Matthew 20:18, Matthew 26:66, Luke 2:26, Luke 22:33, Luke 23:15, Luke 23:22, John 21:19, Acts 23:29, Acts 25:11, Acts 26:31, Acts 28:18, Romans 8:38, Philippians 2:27, Hebrews 7:23, Hebrews 9:16

Metaphorical Meanings of Death in English and in the Bible

I was once blessed with the opportunity to take a graduate level course on the science of defining words. The basic procedure to follow when seeking to find all the definitions a word has (both literal and metaphorical) is to look for sentences where the context of the sentence makes the meaning clear.

Like many words, the word “death” can be used with metaphorical meanings. Here are two examples:

1. When Joey saw his brother had broken Mom’s favorite vase, he said, “You are so dead.”

2. The car won’t start; the engine is dead.

The first example combines hyperbole (it’s not likely the mom will literally kill her son) with a figure of speech called prolepsis. Prolepsis is used when we speak of something we expect to happen in the future as if it has already occurred. In the example above, Joey is certain that his brother will be punished even though it hasn’t happened yet......


ESV Genesis 20:3 But God came to Abimelech in a dream by night and said to him, "Behold, you are a dead man because of the woman whom you have taken, for she is a man's wife."

The NIV translation makes it clear that this is an example of prolepsis:

NIV Genesis 20:3 But God came to Abimelek in a dream one night and said to him, "You are as good as dead because of the woman you have taken; she is a married woman."
......

.... It does not make sense to use the word “death” to describe a situation where people actually continue to feel and think forever and ever and never actually die.....

I'm unconvinced by your definition of dead.

You've relegated the phrase "my car is dead" to a metaphorical usage, but it's actually a literal usage.

Dead doesn't mean non-existent, nor is it simply without biological function - those are merely applications.

Dead means "useless", and scripture bears that out. But first....

What does it mean that a battery is dead?
it means that a battery has lost its energy and is no longer useful

what is a dead electrical circuit?
it means that there is either a circuit breaker tripped or a connection loose, and that circuit is not useful

what is a dead-end street?
it means that street ends, and is not useful as a thoroughfare.

and now, your example from James 2:26, where he said the body, without the spirit, is dead. He's using that to stress the point that faith, if it has no works, is dead. He said very plainly, "for just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead."

Now, your assertion might appear to stand if it were not for verse 20 "but are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?"

 

[TCassidy]

So this is a tag team job?

Yes, it is. There has been a steady influx of these "conditional immortality" people for the past few days. It is planned.

 

[TCassidy]

If you are not TCassidy

Who else would be using my screen name?

Perhaps we were wrong to think that all potential readers of this blog would know what a lexicon is and what prima facie means,

Perhaps if you would have bothered to get to know some of these people you might have discovered many of them have significantly better educations than you do, and several of them have extensive expeience as college and seminary professors.

And this is not a "blog." It is a discussion forum. This is not a place for you to post long confused articles regarding your pet false doctrine. It is a place for people to have honest discussions regarding Baptist doctrines.

but we certainly were not trying to be condescending.

For not trying you certainly did so.

 

[InTheLight]

Yes, it is. There has been a steady influx of these "conditional immortality" people for the past few days. It is planned.

It certainly is a strange doctrine. I understand this is a discussion forum and esoteric topics are sometimes discussed, but I can't figure out how championing this doctrine helps the cause of Christ, edifies Christians, or advances the gospel.

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