Confessed Sins

[BobRyan]

Originally Posted by BobRyan
Ezek 18
4. the SOUL that sins - it shall die.

26 When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.

27 Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.
28 Because he considereth, and turneth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

BobRyan
Shall we illustrate Ezekiel?
V26
RIGHTEOUSNESS~~~~~>SIN~>DEATH
You die for your sins which came AFTER your righteousness

V27
SIN~~~~~~~~>RIGHTEOUSNESS
You live because of your latter righteousness

Which of these remotely suggests UNPARDONING?

In Ezek 18 the righteous live -- the wicked die.

In Ezek 18 the righteous are forgiven then later are unforgiven because of turning away from God.

Now in ISLAM that would mean that a perfectly sinless being at some point in the future sinned and then died in that sin.

But in the religion of the actual Bible that means that a saint in the OT - like those in Heb 11 - turned from following God and chose sin and rebellion -- thus all the former forgiveness is revoked.

[FONT=&quot] 26"[/FONT][FONT=&quot]When a righteous man turns away from his righteousness[/FONT][FONT=&quot], commits iniquity and dies because of it, for his iniquity which he has committed he will die. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
27"Again, when [/FONT][FONT=&quot]a wicked man turns away[/FONT][FONT=&quot] from his wickedness which he has committed and practices justice and righteousness, he will save his life. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
28"Because [/FONT][FONT=&quot]he considered and turned away from all his transgressions which he had committed[/FONT][FONT=&quot], he shall surely live; he shall not die. [/FONT]

 

[BobRyan]

Rom 11

The letter is written to the CHURCH in Rome - not the "nation in Rome"

[FONT=&quot]13But I am speaking to you who are Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle of Gentiles, I magnify my ministry,
14if somehow I might move to jealousy my fellowcountrymen and save some of them. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
15For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
16 If the first piece of dough is holy, the lump is also; and if the root is holy, the branches are too.
17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree, [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]18 do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you.
19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.”
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear;
21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
22Behold then thekindness and severityof God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]23And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.[/FONT]

My brother,
Your current state of unbelief gets you cut off. How is that UNPARDONING?

[FONT=&quot]20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear;
21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
22Behold then thekindness and severityof God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]23And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

[FONT=&quot]So for example - [FONT=&quot]if you[FONT=&quot] were to take this text to heart - you might [FONT=&quot]reflect on it this w[FONT=&quot]ay - [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT] when you were standing by faith you were forgiven - but the warning is that in failing to take the lesson to heart reg[FONT=&quot]arding those who fell before you - yo[FONT=&quot]u then fell and experience that same fallen condition.

[FONT=&quot]The hope that is offer[FONT=&quot]ed you in that case is th[FONT=&quot]at which is stated [FONT=&quot]for [FONT=&quot]others wh[FONT=&quot]o also fell "[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again."[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT] ==================================

So then you can see both pardon - standing by faith and also the warning to those who stand by faith - that they may also fall and experience that same forgiveness revoked.

Pretty powerful message that Paul has in Romans 11.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Matt 18
32 Then his master, after he had called him, said to him, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you begged me. 33 Should you not also have had compassion on your fellow servant, just as I had pity on you?’ 34 And his master was angry, and delivered him to the torturers until he should pay all that was due to him.

35 “So My heavenly Father also will do to you if each of you, from his heart, does not forgive his brother his trespasses.”

Matthew
UNPARDONING is ONLY a result of subsequent unforgiveness and I highly doubt this in the light of the innumerable verses detailing God forgetting my sins

You seem to understand that forgiveness revoked is "real" in Matt 18 but suppose that it is limited only to subsequent unforgiveness on your part when in fact Ezek 18 and, Romans 11 and Rom 2:4-6 and many other texts point out that failure to endure firm to the end - choosing rebellion over obedience - ceasing to walk by faith, choosing wickedness will result in forgiveness revoked.

Not that you are lost each time you sin - but you can choose to turn from God and in so doing experience that forgiveness revoked.

 

[vooks]

You seem to understand that forgiveness revoked is "real" in Matt 18 but suppose that it is limited only to subsequent unforgiveness on your part

35 “So My heavenly Father also will do to you if each of you, from his heart, does not forgive his brother his trespasses.”

BobRyan,
You seem to ignore the CONDITIONAL found in Matthew 18. You work too hard to ignore it

when in fact Ezek 18

My brother, a righteous man lapsing into sin and perishing for it is not UNPARDONING. The verse is clear; it is those sins that take him out.

and, Romans 11

And you are not ready to divorce UNBELIEF from UNPARDONING some totally unrelated concepts

and Rom 2:4-6

Romans 2:6-9 (KJV)
Who will render to every man according to his deeds: 7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: 8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, 9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
I would as sooner as you pointed out UNPARDONING here

and many other texts point out that failure to endure firm to the end -

The failure is sin, the current state that damns. It does not push God into UNPARDONING your former sins.
You may want to study Israel 40 years in the wilderness. Every time they sinned against God, it was ALWAYS the current sin that incurred the wrath of God be it murmuring, fornication.... David too. How many times do you think he repented over Bathsheba?

choosing rebellion over obedience - ceasing to walk by faith, choosing wickedness will result in forgiveness revoked.

Share the verses my brother, share them


BobRyan,
You reckon all your sins are pardoned.
Do you sin? Have you sinned today?
What happened when you last sinned? God UNPARDONED your last year's, your total sum of PARDONED sins?
And what happened when you repented and prayed for forgiveness? Did you repent of your past history of the pardoned and later unpardoned sins?
Is this your life?

 

[BrotherJoseph]

Forgiveness revoked - then the offer of forgiveness regained

Ezek 18
26 When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.
27 Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.
28 Because he considereth, and turneth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

Brother Bob,

Ezek 18 quoted by you above does not pertain to eternal life or it being revoked with an "offer" to regain it. This is pertaining to the system of blessings and cursings that were conditional based upon obedience to the law of Moses, and thus these verses are referring to living and dying physically, not eternally. That is why we read in Hebrews, "16 For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses.
17 But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?" (Hebrews 3:16-17) and 1 Corinthians 15:56, "56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law".

Also, contrary to popular modern day belief, there is no scripture in the entire Bible that explicitly uses the word "offer" as it pertains to the gospel or eternal life, or the word one must "accept" Jesus. On the contrary it states HE has made us accepted. "To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved" (Ephesians 1:6). He did this through the atonement.

The book of Joshua makes it clear that the old covenant was a system of blessings and cursings that would come upon Israel conditioned on if they obeyed the law. "And afterward he read all the words of the law, the blessings and cursings, according to all that is written in the book of the law." (Joshua 8:34)

National Israel never received a single blessing as the result of their obedience to this conditional covenant, for they did not keep it, and if it had been replete with heavenly treasures and blessings to have been dispensed upon condition of their obedience, they would never have obtained one of them, for it is written, “They continued not in My covenant and I regarded them not, saith the Lord” (Hebrews 8:9).

We are not under the old covenant, but under the new covenant. "6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises." (Hebrews 8:6). Why is this covenant better? Because it is based on grace, therefore all blessings bestowed upon a believer are not based upon obeying the conditions of the law, but by grace are bestowed unconditionally. The proof? "...our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:" (Ephesians 1:3). If a blessing could be earned, it would not be considered a blessing, but rather a wage.

God bless,

Brother Joe

 

[Darrell C]

Forgiveness revoked - then the offer of forgiveness regained

Ezek 18
26 When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.
27 Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.
28 Because he considereth, and turneth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

The context is temporal, as most of the Old Testament is.

In view is the same physical death that even Christians can fall under for sin. It has nothing to do with eternal punishment or eternal salvation in it's immediate context.

Can one receive eternal salvation through keeping the following...


Ezekiel 18

King James Version (KJV)


4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

5 But if a man be just, and do that which is lawful and right,

6 And hath not eaten upon the mountains, neither hath lifted up his eyes to the idols of the house of Israel, neither hath defiled his neighbour's wife, neither hath come near to a menstruous woman,

7 And hath not oppressed any, but hath restored to the debtor his pledge, hath spoiled none by violence, hath given his bread to the hungry, and hath covered the naked with a garment;

8 He that hath not given forth upon usury, neither hath taken any increase, that hath withdrawn his hand from iniquity, hath executed true judgment between man and man,

9 Hath walked in my statutes, and hath kept my judgments, to deal truly; he is just, he shall surely live, saith the Lord God.


...?

Romans 11

19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.

The context deals on a National level, not an individual level.

We back up to find the context:


Romans 9

King James Version (KJV)

1 I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,

2 That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.

3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:

4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.


Do we see the individual here...

19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.

...? An individual branch was broken off to graft in an individual?

Do we see an individual here...

20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

...?

And is it individuals spoken of here, when the condition of Israel is restored as a whole...


Romans 11:25-27

King James Version (KJV)

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.


...?

It seems fairly clear God will save Israel as a whole. "All Israel shall be saved" when among her only the unbelieving enter into the Millennial Kingdom. All of the promises of God will be fulfilled at that time in regards to Israel receiving her Redeemer.


God bless.

 

[Yeshua1]

Sounds like obvious questions but let me do it.

1. What happens to confessed sins? Are they like completely erased or does God hold on to them just in case you relapse?
Would the judgement be based on already forgiven sins?
2. Is blotting out the same as forgiving?
3. Is forgiveness &/blotting immediate or futuristic?
4. What is forgiveness and blotting out?


Luke 5:20 (KJV)
And when he saw their faith, he said unto him, Man, thy sins are forgiven thee

1 John 1:7 (KJV)
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

1 John 1:9
(KJV) If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness

Revelation 1:5 (KJV)
Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood

Isaiah 43:25 (KJV)
25 I, even I, am he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake,
and will not remember thy sins.

Isaiah 44:22 (KJV)
22 I have blotted out, as a thick cloud, thy transgressions,
and, as a cloud, thy sins:
return unto me; for I have redeemed thee.

The death of jesus paid/atoned for EVERY sin that you will ever commit, and when God freely justified you on the basis of the Cross, that was an ternal salvation...

We always have relationship established with God by the cross, but wjen we commit sins and refuse to repent/confess, breaks our fellowship with God, and so we need to have that cleaned back up!
Would be like King david that year he hid his sinning, God still saw him as the King and one of His own, but David experienced the results of hiding that sin!