Confessions of a non calvinist.

[whatever]

Originally posted by John of Japan:
If you had gone and looked at the Missionary/Witnessing/Evangelism thread, you would know. It was a simple request for fellowship. I was not trying to attack Calvinists, I was simply making the point that I don't see you guys there.

Seems like this would be a perfect chance for Calvinists to prove that yes, they do evangelism and yes, God uses them at it! So I urge you, whatever, meet me there and share how God uses you!

Looks like I have misread your intentions, and I apologize.

 

[John of Japan]

Originally posted by whatever:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by John of Japan:
If you had gone and looked at the Missionary/Witnessing/Evangelism thread, you would know. It was a simple request for fellowship. I was not trying to attack Calvinists, I was simply making the point that I don't see you guys there.

Seems like this would be a perfect chance for Calvinists to prove that yes, they do evangelism and yes, God uses them at it! So I urge you, whatever, meet me there and share how God uses you!

Looks like I have misread your intentions, and I apologize. </font>[/QUOTE]No problem, brother.

 

[EdSutton]

Originally posted by Bluefalcon:
I think the direction of this thread is really sad.

Agreed!

 

[Timtoolman]

Well I know this will never be settled. I started this thread from personal observation and the way I percieve things. I was trying to be honest and open. I see that others do at times also. Yet we continue to mis-understand each other. Like for instance I just finished reading Brother Bill's post on calvinism in a white ford van. Tries to reprove all the misconceptions of calvinism and then goes into nothing but mis understanding of non calvinist! I think maybe I have finally came to the answer for me. Quite trying to prove one or the other right or wrong but live and do for Christ. All else can be a distraction from that. And we know how is behind that1

God Bless, moving on.

Tim

 

[Bill Brown]

Originally posted by Timtoolman:
Well I know this will never be settled. I started this thread from personal observation and the way I percieve things. I was trying to be honest and open. I see that others do at times also. Yet we continue to mis-understand each other. Like for instance I just finished reading Brother Bill's post on calvinism in a white ford van. Tries to reprove all the misconceptions of calvinism and then goes into nothing but mis understanding of non calvinist! I think maybe I have finally came to the answer for me. Quite trying to prove one or the other right or wrong but live and do for Christ. All else can be a distraction from that. And we know how is behind that1

God Bless, moving on.

Tim

Tim, I responded to your comment about me where it belongs...in the thread in which it refers to, "Calvinism in a white Ford van."

 

[J.D.]

Originally posted by John of Japan:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by J.D.:
John, the problem with a forum is anonymity....

... the ignorant pelagian words of people who have the gall to give themselves the title of "biblicist", smears the omnipotence of almighty God.

John, if I wrote a book similar to Hyles' "Great Soul-Winning Experiences", a book I happen to love, I guess that would make me o.k. in your eyes. As far as I'm concerned, this makes you about the same as Bob Gray, who exercises no shame in glorying in his own works, exalting himself to popedom, and roundly condemning anyone that does not join in his boasting behavior. Now you might not be as prone to it as he is, nevertheless, you hold the same root philosophy. You are thoroughly arminian though you deny it, excepting the fifth point of the remonstransts. My fear is that you, as many of today's arminians, are at least in part Pelagian in your views. How is that? You make the work of God, that is, salvation and more specifically regeneration, the work of man; even a natural process rather than supernatural.

I would like to find a forum where I can engage in debate with someone that (1)knows what their own church or confession teaches and (2) would like to engage in serious thought over these issues, not just sling pejoratives over their opponent during a theological drive-by shooting. John, I know that you know what you believe, but some here do not. And I think you try to avoid drive-by's, but you come pretty close to that sometimes.


J.D.
God' Puppet/Robot

Forgive me, I'm trying not to be offensive, but this sounds all mixed up to me. First you talk about how this forum is anonymous, then you claim to know what I believe, comparing me to Bob Gray, who I've never met and know little about. (I assume you mean the upstart in Texas rather than the grand old Fundamentalist from Florida who became a wonderful missionary after retiring from the pastorate as an old man.) The Bible forbids such comparisons, so frankly I don't compare myself to anyone but my Lord Jesus Christ, and of course I fall far short there, as we all do.

You claim I am completely Arminian. Huh? Where in the world did you get that? This forum is anonymous, remember? I've never posted my beliefs either way on the Internet, and I don't feel I have to to please some anonymous Calvinist. My Lord Jesus Christ, my mission board, my supporters and the church I shepherd know what I am, and I am content with that.

For all you know I could be a 4 point Calvinist, though I freely admit I am not a 5-pointer, and I am certainly not an Arminian by any definition, though you have basically called me a liar on that. I don't remember ever interacting with you on this or any other forum, or ever seeing you in my Bible institute classes here in Japan. So where did you learn about my beliefs?

I have called myself a Biblicist on the BB, I admit that. And you say one who has "the gall to give themselves the title of 'biblicist,' smears the omnipotence of almighty God." Huh? What in the world does that mean? I don't have a clue what you are talking about here. I guess then that "Bible-believer," the favorite term of Machen (a Calvinist), would be out, too, huh?

Would you force me to be either a 5-point Arminian or a 5-point Calvinist? Forget it! I believe in the priesthood of the believer, and I will call myself whatever I want and I will believe what I think is right.

</font>[/QUOTE]What? I can't rant every now and then? O.K. I'm a hot-head. I'll take another look at what I said and either take it back or support it. Later, no time now.

But for now, I'll just ask you point-blank: How many points of the remonstrants to you affirm or deny, and how many points of the TULIP do you affirm or deny?

I've asked several people on this forum point-blank whether they are open theists or not, and I can not get a straight answer. Why be uncertain about it? I'm not asking you that BTW.

As for that title that some claim "biblicist", I find that offensive because it claims the moral high-ground against all opponents. Like those in Corinth that were better than the followers of Paul, Appolos, or Peter; they were "of Christ". I can better endure those other titles like "calminian".

J.D.
God's Loveless Puppet/Robot (so I was called on this forum)

 

[John of Japan]

Originally posted by J.D.:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by John of Japan:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by J.D.:
John, the problem with a forum is anonymity....

... the ignorant pelagian words of people who have the gall to give themselves the title of "biblicist", smears the omnipotence of almighty God.

John, if I wrote a book similar to Hyles' "Great Soul-Winning Experiences", a book I happen to love, I guess that would make me o.k. in your eyes. As far as I'm concerned, this makes you about the same as Bob Gray, who exercises no shame in glorying in his own works, exalting himself to popedom, and roundly condemning anyone that does not join in his boasting behavior. Now you might not be as prone to it as he is, nevertheless, you hold the same root philosophy. You are thoroughly arminian though you deny it, excepting the fifth point of the remonstransts. My fear is that you, as many of today's arminians, are at least in part Pelagian in your views. How is that? You make the work of God, that is, salvation and more specifically regeneration, the work of man; even a natural process rather than supernatural.

I would like to find a forum where I can engage in debate with someone that (1)knows what their own church or confession teaches and (2) would like to engage in serious thought over these issues, not just sling pejoratives over their opponent during a theological drive-by shooting. John, I know that you know what you believe, but some here do not. And I think you try to avoid drive-by's, but you come pretty close to that sometimes.


J.D.
God' Puppet/Robot

Forgive me, I'm trying not to be offensive, but this sounds all mixed up to me. First you talk about how this forum is anonymous, then you claim to know what I believe, comparing me to Bob Gray, who I've never met and know little about. (I assume you mean the upstart in Texas rather than the grand old Fundamentalist from Florida who became a wonderful missionary after retiring from the pastorate as an old man.) The Bible forbids such comparisons, so frankly I don't compare myself to anyone but my Lord Jesus Christ, and of course I fall far short there, as we all do.

You claim I am completely Arminian. Huh? Where in the world did you get that? This forum is anonymous, remember? I've never posted my beliefs either way on the Internet, and I don't feel I have to to please some anonymous Calvinist. My Lord Jesus Christ, my mission board, my supporters and the church I shepherd know what I am, and I am content with that.

For all you know I could be a 4 point Calvinist, though I freely admit I am not a 5-pointer, and I am certainly not an Arminian by any definition, though you have basically called me a liar on that. I don't remember ever interacting with you on this or any other forum, or ever seeing you in my Bible institute classes here in Japan. So where did you learn about my beliefs?

I have called myself a Biblicist on the BB, I admit that. And you say one who has "the gall to give themselves the title of 'biblicist,' smears the omnipotence of almighty God." Huh? What in the world does that mean? I don't have a clue what you are talking about here. I guess then that "Bible-believer," the favorite term of Machen (a Calvinist), would be out, too, huh?

Would you force me to be either a 5-point Arminian or a 5-point Calvinist? Forget it! I believe in the priesthood of the believer, and I will call myself whatever I want and I will believe what I think is right.

</font>[/QUOTE]What? I can't rant every now and then? O.K. I'm a hot-head. I'll take another look at what I said and either take it back or support it. Later, no time now.

But for now, I'll just ask you point-blank: How many points of the remonstrants to you affirm or deny, and how many points of the TULIP do you affirm or deny?

I've asked several people on this forum point-blank whether they are open theists or not, and I can not get a straight answer. Why be uncertain about it? I'm not asking you that BTW.

As for that title that some claim "biblicist", I find that offensive because it claims the moral high-ground against all opponents. Like those in Corinth that were better than the followers of Paul, Appolos, or Peter; they were "of Christ". I can better endure those other titles like "calminian".

J.D.
God's Loveless Puppet/Robot (so I was called on this forum) </font>[/QUOTE]You know what, J.D.? I'm not trying to disrespect you, but I was debating Calvinism in the Bible college dorm 35 years ago, and I've had grad courses in systematic theology which required me to read completely through systematic theologies by both Arminians and Calvinists. And you want me to debate you on the subject? To be brutally frank, an Internet debate with an anonymous opponent on the subject would be boring to me. I'm just not interested.

How many points of the remonstrants I hold to? I don't know and I don't care!!! I haven't tallied them up in quite a few years and don't intend to for the purpose of an Internet debate I'm just not interested in!

My primary foundation in theology is the Fundamentals, my foundation for Christian living is the Baptist distinctives, and I have no need in my life or ministry to rehash Calvinism.

I originally got on this thread to make a point in pastoral theology which, to me, had nothing to do with either Calvinism or Arminianism--either side can be "intellectual" in the pulpit.

I distinctly said at that time that I was not getting into the C v. A debate, but IN SPITE of that, some of you Calvinists got all offended at a good-natured invitation to join me in a fellowship thread. And then both you and Joseph tried telling me what I believe, and got it very wrong in the process!! And that's supposed to endear me to the C v. A debate and make me want to join it?