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confused about Calvin (Page 21) Round two
- Thread starter johnp.
- Start date
Timtoolman
New Member
Scott or JohnP you have no right to demand anything of me. You have not shown the respect to deserve it.
standingfirminChrist
New Member
Amen, Timtoolman!
Why would God need to harden their hearts if they were unable to respond anyway?
Good point!
Why would God need to harden their hearts if they were unable to respond anyway?
Good point!
Again, I don't disagree with this. There is nothing man can desire, wish, determine himself to get to Heaven. Salvation is a gift, something that cannot be willed, wished, or gained on personal determination...just accepted or rejected. This still does not mean that God picks and chooses who He offers Salvation to.
Timtoolman
New Member
I say it because God said it through Paul:
Ephesians 1:3-6 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He has made us accepted in the Beloved.
I do have a love for souls. You have no idea who I am or what I do. I regularly share the gospel with my unsaved friends (three of which are Jewish), who I weep over daily because they are still in their sins. I go on visitation every week. I support missionaries both through my church and individually. And I constantly ask God, "why me and not someone else?" So, don't assume because I believe in the Doctrines of Grace that I don't love the lost.
I strive so hard because God has ordained not only the ends (His glory through salvation and damnation), but also the ends (you and me arguing and discussing our faith).
Not sure what you mean by this. You don't even know me, so how can you call me a hypocrite? And how can you call 88 Scripture passages untruth?
No, we do the opposite of what YOU claim we believe. You obviously have no idea what we believe because you can't seem to present our view without being wrong. I know exactly what you believe because I used to believe it. It is only recently that I came to see the Doctrines of Grace as being biblical truth. </font>[/QUOTE]
Timtoolman
New Member
Again, thier own worst enemy! AT least these ones anyways Standing. I have calvinist friends who would distance themselves from anyone trying to deny the Holy and Rightoues character of God.
I have not lied about what you believe... nor ignored it when you corrected me for making a false claim about what you believe.
Whether you were lying or just carelessly inaccurate, you falsely asserted that I have argued that God is the author of sin. The Lord is the author and finisher of our faith (Heb 12:2)... God is the author of godly fear (Jer 32:39-40)... Christ is the author of salvation (Heb 5:9)... but God is not the author of sin.
It is a sin in itself to say God authored sin. God allowed it or it would have never occurred. He accounted for it or else we could not claim that He has a plan or is sovereign. But man and Satan are wholly responsible for sin.
BTW, you can't even be completely honest about my words in a proud refusal to apologize. Read my words. I requested an apology... I didn't demand one. The request was made on the assumption that while you may have been lying about my position on this issue you should be given the benefit of the doubt.
Your arrogant, hateful response to my request tends to point away from your accusation being an honest mistake.
standingfirminChrist
New Member
Gentlemen, Gentlemen,
Step back and take a breather. Don't let this turn into something un-Christlike.
Step back and take a breather. Don't let this turn into something un-Christlike.
Timtoolman
New Member
I have not lied about what you believe... nor ignored it when you corrected me for making a false claim about what you believe.
Whether you were lying or just carelessly inaccurate, you falsely asserted that I have argued that God is the author of sin. The Lord is the author and finisher of our faith (Heb 12:2)... God is the author of godly fear (Jer 32:39-40)... Christ is the author of salvation (Heb 5:9)... but God is not the author of sin.
It is a sin in itself to say God authored sin. God allowed it or it would have never occurred. He accounted for it or else we could not claim that He has a plan or is sovereign. But man and Satan are wholly responsible for sin.
BTW, you can't even be completely honest about my words in a proud refusal to apologize. Read my words. I requested an apology... I didn't demand one. The request was made on the assumption that while you may have been lying about my position on this issue you should be given the benefit of the doubt.
Your arrogant, hateful response to my request tends to point away from your accusation being an honest mistake. </font>[/QUOTE]Calvibaptist:
WRONG! The primary cause for the earth being in the condition it is in is God.
JohnP:
GE 6:5 The LORD saw how great man's wickedness on the earth had become, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil all the time.
Every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil all the time which means all free will choices will be of the same nature, every inclination is evil all the time.
AND
Who else could have caused it? HaHa! That God is the first cause of sin is scriptural old chap. Scriptural means that it is in the bible as fact. The bible is a book of scriptures and you can get, as a free download, many translations from the web.
It was God that caused Pharaoh to sin
Timtoolman said:You conclude that we are to hate our parents, that God is the cause for sin and that we are all robots.
Johnp:
I thank you representing my views correctly. I do. A first.
Here are your “brothers” Scott, NOW what do you want me to apologize for? These are the guys you are running with and praising for their great incite. These are the guys who are Calvinist brothers. Are they not?
Timtoolman
New Member
DBL Post
Hello Tim.
But I think you have no business calling poor old Scott a double predestinating Calvinist is there? Where has he ever given you that impression?
Now please answer my questions. Is hardly a demand is it?
JN 17:9 I pray for them. I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours. [Who does He not pray for?]
JN 17:6 "I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world. [Who has He revealed Himself to?]
JN 17:14 I have given them your word and the world has hated them for they are not of the world any more than I am of the world. [Who are not part of the world?]
As I said, if you don't want to answer me just say so and I will stop asking.
How about you standingfirm? Would you like to answer these questions?
john.
I have demanded nothing from you. If you will not answer my questions I do not care.
But I think you have no business calling poor old Scott a double predestinating Calvinist is there? Where has he ever given you that impression?
Now please answer my questions. Is hardly a demand is it?
JN 17:9 I pray for them. I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours. [Who does He not pray for?]
JN 17:6 "I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world. [Who has He revealed Himself to?]
JN 17:14 I have given them your word and the world has hated them for they are not of the world any more than I am of the world. [Who are not part of the world?]
As I said, if you don't want to answer me just say so and I will stop asking.
How about you standingfirm? Would you like to answer these questions?
john.
Timtoolman
New Member
Where did you answer my question on Adam and Eve?
The sower sows the "SEED", but where it falls determines if the seed grows or not, the "SEED" it's self isn't "defective", but the "GROUND" on which it falls.
Do you know that "FLESH" is made from "GROUND", or "Dust of the earth???
If it's "GOOD GROUND", the seed grows, however if the Ground isn't good ground, the seed won't grow.
Mt 13:18 Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.
19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.
20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;
21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.
22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.
23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit,
The parble explains why the seed doesn't grow, and in neither case is the failure due to the fault of the "SEED", but to the ground on which it fell.
Now, would you like to explain to me again how the failure of the seed to grow, condemning the person, is the results of God's "CHOSING" rather than the "Ground" on which it fell???
And if God isn't responsible for the type of ground on which the seed falls, "WHO IS"???
Timtoolman
New Member
Sherlock Holmes, I posted that there way after I posted it here. YOu think you have discovered something. Just answer the question and stop trying to be clever.
Gentlemen! Gentlemen!
As I glance over this thread, there seems to be one major difficulty.
Many who are discussing Calvin have not read "Calvin's Institutes."
That would give a marvelous insight on these present discussions, it seems to me!
"Where ignorance abounds, grace does much more abound!" AMEN?
sdg!
rd
As I glance over this thread, there seems to be one major difficulty.
Many who are discussing Calvin have not read "Calvin's Institutes."
That would give a marvelous insight on these present discussions, it seems to me!
"Where ignorance abounds, grace does much more abound!" AMEN?
sdg!
rd
Hi Tim,
I'm not sure what it is about Adam and Eve that you think disproves Calvinism. Could you summarize it for me? Thanks in advance. </font>[/QUOTE]Go back and read my post. </font>[/QUOTE]Hi Tim,
I did read it. I'm not sure what it is about Adam and Eve that you think disproves Calvinism. Could you summarize it for me? Just a sentence or two will do. Thanks again.
Timtoolman
New Member
Hi Tim,
I'm not sure what it is about Adam and Eve that you think disproves Calvinism. Could you summarize it for me? Thanks in advance. </font>[/QUOTE]Go back and read my post. </font>[/QUOTE]Hi Tim,
I did read it. I'm not sure what it is about Adam and Eve that you think disproves Calvinism. Could you summarize it for me? Just a sentence or two will do. Thanks again. </font>[/QUOTE]In a nutshell Whatever.....total depravity is not total inability. Adam and Eve, after the fall, unregenerated knew who God was, harken to His voice and responded. Two spiritually dead responding to God. Sacrifice did not come till later. That is the brief.
Your position is that Jesus doesn't want the "WORLD" to be included in the "Plan of salvation",
but was that the "Intent/purpose/Goal" of God/Jesus's Mission as stated in the Scriptures?????
"All have sinned", and Jesus died for "ALL SINS".
Jesus pray for those who would believe, Children of God, God doesn't have anything to do with Children of Satan, of which we all were at one time, but made a "CHOICE" to serve God instead of Satan, and Jesus made it possible for us to become "Sons of God".
The "Children of darkness" "HATE" the "Children of light, but like us, it's a "CHOICE" they also made.
Your doctrine of not praying for the lost is "backwards" according to the scriptures, Jesus doesn't pray for those who chose not to obey him.
Your interpretation doesn't match when placed in "context" with other scriptures, as is common with most of Calvin.