savedbymercy
New Member
the bib
Where did I say that was the what the OP is about ?
Where did I say that was the what the OP is about ?
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Conscious of one's own sinful condition
- Thread starter The Biblicist
- Start date
can one even be aware of this condition, aware of their need for jesus unless the Lord doesHis work in their lives first to allow them to see it?
I don't believe they can. I believe they are BLINDED to their condition. In contrast, I don't believe anyone can be truely saved without becoming cognant of this condition or can grow in knowledge and grace without being made more aware of that condition. Indeed, the more spiritual a person becomes the more aware of that condition they become as the closer one gets to the light the more defects they are able to see in themselves - that is inseparable from spiritual growth. Likewise, so is the positive side. The closer they get to the light the more dependent they become upon the light and not upon themselves and the more they glory in the mercy and grace of God.
You not believing they can does not make it God’s truth.
Hearing the gospel message and having it explained to them CAN open their eyes. That is what the Bible says.
In Acts 26:17 Jesus tells Paul he is sending him to the Jews and Gentiles to OPEN THEIR EYES and turn them from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God. How do you think Paul is going to open the eyes of the Jews and the Gentiles? Remember, faith comes from hearing the word, and Jesus sent Paul to preach the gospel. 1 Corinthians 1:18 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel–not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.
Read what Paul says in Romans 16:25-27. Now to him who is able to ESTABLISH YOU BY MY GOSPEL AND THE PROCLAMATION OF JESUS CHRIST, according to the revelation of the mystery hidden for long ages past, but now revealed and MADE KNOWN THROUGH THE PROPHETIC WRITINGS by the command of the eternal God, SO THAT ALL NATIONS MIGHT BELIEVE AND OBEY HIM–to the only wise God be glory forever through Jesus Christ! Amen.
Paul says that God made the prophetic writings known so that all nations might believe and obey. So again, the word of God tells us that faith comes from hearing. Here are more scriptures that explain how we have to HEAR the message that saves: Acts 8:31: 10:14; 11:14; 16:31; John 9:36; Ephesians 1:13; 4:21; Titus 1:3; Colossians 1:5; 1:23.
Can you explain better what you are saying here? Christians ARE light. So what do you mean the closer one gets to the light the more defects they are able to see in themselves?
Jesus reveals himself to those who obey. We KNOW that we have come to know Him IF we obey His commands. See John 14:21, and 1 John 2:3.
You do not even know Jesus unless you are obeying him.
Those who know jesus are those who have been made aware, convicted of their sinful state, andwho place faith in jesus and are saved!
believe and receive Christ, not believe/obey, than get saved!
Can you not explain your beliefs better? Do you not know what you are saying?
There is not a hidden message in the hidden message, as you imply!
Salvation is for ANYONE.
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was asking the other poster who holds to we must obey god before can know jesus!
Obedience comes after the faith in christ, as have to be saved first before can obey Him!
That is a false teaching what you say!
ANYONE can CHOOSE to do what God says to do!
That is what Jesus says!
John 7:17 Anyone who chooses to do the will of God will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own.
Anyone who chooses to do what God says to do will find out whether Jesus’ teaching is from God or not, BECAUSE WHEN THEY DO WHAT GOD SAYS THEN JESUS WILL REVEAL HIMSELF TO YOU.
Jesus reveals himself to those who obey. We KNOW that we have come to know Him IF we obey His commands. See John 14:21, and 1 John 2:3.
You do not even know Jesus unless you are obeying him.
Matthew 11:27 “All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.
Jesus will choose to reveal himself to those who obey him!
We all choose! Now stop teaching error and falseness.
James 4:4 You adulterous people, don’t you know that friendship with the world means enmity against God? Therefore, anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
HP: I could set forth a list of Scriptures that would paint an entirely different picture of who is lost and who will be saved, but I will not at this time. All will come to light in due time, and in a very short time in relationship to eternity. Indeed we shall all see the truth on that day.
The question is. Are we prepared for that day? Could any one of us end up one of those standing before God trying to convince him of our rightful inheritance into the kingdom, only to hear Him say:
Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Mat 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: .......
You are describing those who embrace your own soteriology. They did not believe they were justified by faith without works but claimed their works as a basis to enter the kingdom of heaven.
The following analogy makes no distinction between the "house" which represents ones life of good works, but makes the distinction between the foundations upon which the life of good works is built.
Doing the will of His Father in order to enter the kingdom of heaven is plainly spelled out in Matthew 5:20 and 5:48 and His will to enter the kingdom of heaven plainly excludes your own good works but rests upon the solid rock of Christ and His works.
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
If ones faith is not accompanied by works in accordance to God's conditions and commands, what was it that James called such faith? Was it not 'dead?' Will dead faith save anyone?
I have explained this so many times and not one single time has anyone attempted to demonstrate where I am wrong in my explanation but simply ignore the explanation.
James is viewing justification of a person that has already professed salvation not a person who is being saved. A person who has professed salvation has been regenerated and justified by faith. The faith that justified him simply received and rested upon the good news of the finished works of Christ in his place but then in connection with regeneration that same faith responds by love in faithfulness through good works unto God.
Both the motivating cause of good works (love) and power of good works originates with regeneration not justification (Eph. 2:10 "unto good works) but where there is true justification there will always be regeneration "unto good works." Thus the man professing justification by faith will be producing "good works" or else they have not been justified.
The difference is that justifying faith receives and rests upon what Christ does for us as the sole hope of eternal life and yet that same faith is empowered and motivated by love to produce good works for God.
Paul deals with justification as a distinct aspect of salvation separate from regeneration in Romans 3:24-5:1 and thus it is "without works" whereas James deals with a person not merely justified by faith but regenerated (James 1:18) as well which always accompanies good works (Eph. 2:10).
Later in Romans 6-8 Paul joins both justification by faith with regenerative life and insists upon the accompaniment of good works as well thus agreeing with James when it comes to a COMPLETED PAST TENSE salvation where both justification by faith and regeneration have already been united in one person.
The difference between Romans 3:24-5:1 and James 1-2 is that Romans 3-5 deals soley with justification by faith whereas James 1-2 deals with justification by faith in connection with regeneration as well which always accompanies good works. The good works originate from regeneration as its fruits (James 1:18) not from justification. Justfication has to do with Christ works FOR YOU while regeneration has to do with your works FOR CHRIST (Eph. 2:8-10). However, they are both present in every person who professes to have been justified by faith.
However, the "good works" originate from regeneration (James 1:18) not justification but are always present in the "saved" man's life because where there is justification by faith there is also regeneration.
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Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
HP: Like the 'good works' we hear testified to as 'sinning everday?' Good works like if one is not sinning they have not been saved and are liars?
HP: Like the 'good works' we hear testified to as 'sinning everday?' Good works like if one is not sinning they have not been saved and are liars?
Progressive sanctification contains a mixture of both and spiritual growth is the process by which good works CHARACTERISTICALLY dominates more than sin does.
Remember the fourth soil in Matthew 13 and the differences between children of God in producing fruits from the implanted seed of God's Word? Some "thirty, some...."
Your type of sanctification is black or white. Either you are living above sin or you are not. Hence, the analogy of "some thirty, some....." does not agree with your position.
Your type of sanctification is black or white, either you are living above sin or you are not and therefore there is no categorization of spiritual growth some little children, some young men, some fathers.
Biblicist,
You say a person is not supposed to do anything for Jesus to save them, or else it would be a works based salvation. You also say that a person not only is not supposed to do anything to be saved but that they cannot. So, tell me, why does Jesus save those he saves? Use scripture. Be prepared, because I know why, and I have scripture to prove it.
Moriah, just curious--Do you see the difference between SBG's and Biblicist's explanation of salvation? They are quite different.
SBM’s and Biblicist’s beliefs are not quite different.
In fact, Biblicist goes against some of SBM’s beliefs not realizing that is what his beliefs entail.
How about you answering the question I gave to Biblicist. You also say a person is not supposed to do anything for Jesus to save them, or else it would be a works based salvation. You also say that a person not only is not supposed to do anything to be saved but that they cannot. So, tell me, why does Jesus save those he saves? Use scripture. Be prepared, because I know why, and I have scripture to prove it.
First, we have a problem of communication. What do you mean by the word "saved"? What aspect of salvation are you referring to? Tell me what you mean by "saved" and I will answer your question. Define it.
No, “we” do not have a problem with communication, you do. How hard do you make that question? Just answer the question. Why does God choose some to save and some to go to Hell? I know the answer; now show everyone your answer.
savedbymercy
New Member
The Holy Spirit of God, He is given to the Elect world to convince it of their sinfulness, and bring them to belief in Christ. For by Nature, even the Elect are unbelievers, and ignorant to their rebellion against God, like Paul, they are sometimes extremely religous and dedicated people to God, in their mind, but even these need to be convinced of their depravity and rebellion against God and be brought to Faith in their Saviour. So He will convict the world of the elect of sin, why ? Because they are unbelievers and consequently, they believe not on Christ yet Jn 16:8-9
8And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
The Holy Spirit will change that and convert them to Faith by New Birth !
8And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
The Holy Spirit will change that and convert them to Faith by New Birth !