Consequences of the Warning Passages in Hebrews

[Herb Evans]

J. Jump][/b]

Again thank you for proving my point. You have "a lot" of things that you believe that you "cannot prove" yet you insist that everyone believe like you or they are a heretic.

I mean does anything else need to be said? I don't think so.

Well, I gues you can prove everything that you believe down to the tiniest detail. Do you use Faust's book to do that? Still, there are many things that I can prove and have proved against your wicked doctrine. I note that you ignored the scripture I posted on Heb. 4:1-6 . Too much for you, eh? I am waiting for you to prove that theye were all saved that left Egypt. That will prove my points.-- Herb Evans

Why do you want to hear my take on it Herb? You aren't going to believe me anyway. You are already determined that what I believe is false so why do you want me to explain a falsity to you. That makes no sense.

Well, that is one way of getting out of it without committing yourself. Nice dodge! -- herb Evans

If they want to see me all they have to do is ask. They don't need your biased opinions of me! Let them make up their own mind or do you have to think for everyone?

No, I just give them the info, they can do what they want with it. -- herb Evans

What a load . . . Just becuase he hadn't heard of it doesn't mean I was being deceptive. You really do need to catch a clue. And when he asked I shared with him an answer. If he truly wants to know more I will share more.

I did not say that you were deceptive, but you were not anxious for folks to know all at once. I guess I ruined that. -- Hreb Evans

Wow you must have the same superhuman powers that others on this board think they have. Sir you do not know me. Please don't act like you do. You don't have a clue.

No, not hardly, but it is the spirit of man that knows the spirit of man. I can see a con coming a mile away, being a former street kid. -- Herb Evans

Well let's all roll over and give you a cookie.

Choclate chip, but not too many due to my diabetes. -- Hreb Evans

You'll have to answer for that was well, but I was talking about your attitude toward others. If you will have to answer for that whether you think you will or not.

For having contempt for false peophets? Never. Maybe your god is on a journey. -- Herb Evans

Again you show your ignorance in that you think that just because someone believes this way they must be a Faustite. Let me clear the air again. I have never met Joey Faust. And I have never read his book. I don't even own the book.

Well, then for you to be one by osmosis, you are pretty good. -- Herb Evans

There are a couple of things that I know he teaches that I don't agree with, because James and I have discussed them.

Well, do you want a cookie? -- Herb Evans

So again just more proof from the lips of the horse that you don't know what you are talking about. But please keep posting becuase you are just continuing to mount the case against you.

Well, just more proof that you are a heretic, so you keep posting one liners and I will answer them with one liners. -- Herb Evans

You really are a funny old man. An objection was not placed in front of me to answer. I asked you for Scripture two or three times and it took a third post before you even posted any Scripture and then you only posted a Scripture that doesn't "prove" your point, but leads you to your speculation.

Yes, I gave it to you and you ignored it and can't even provide a scripure to the negative to answer your own request and mine. I gues you think all I have to do is respond to ankle biters. -- Herb Evans

And there is no evading it's just called not wasting my time with someone who doesn't want to hear anyway. You believe you have the truth, so you can live with it and answer for it on that day. But don't come at me with this nonsense that I win because you don't put up a fight garbage

Well, that is another nice dodge. Did you every consider taking up bull fighting? Don't try that with the IRS! They have a name for it. -- Herb Evans

 

[Herb Evans]

[/b]

Well what we have here is Herb proving that he is like most in that he has something that he wants to believe yet has no Scriptural foundation for it, but insists that others believe like he does or they are heretics.

Sorry Herb, but I don't go off a Herb says so. You may be the brightest, most intelligent, most scholarly man on the face of the earth, but I'm still not going to believe a word you say until you come to the table with Scripture that backs up your statements.

And with this quote here you prove that you don't have any. And the reason that is, is becuase the Bible does not say such a thing. There is no Scripture recording that suggests any of the children of Israel that made the Exodus out of Egypt was unsaved. To believe otherwise is outside of the bounds of Scripture.

I hope you continue to post more and more, because while it is almost sickening to read your posts (for a variety of different reasons) with every post you put up here folks should be able to continue to see right through you. At least I hope they can, but I am sure some will not unfortunately

Again you "JUMP" in where you shouldn't and get your foot in your mouth. I posted the scriptural foundation. You Faustites think you smell blood and go into a feeding frenzy, like a pack of wolves. Come to think of it, that is what you are. You can't be sheep and believe as you do or can you?-- Herb Evans

 

[Herb Evans]

Well this is what others would like to have you believe, but a more accurate statement is Scripture has a plan for eternal (spiritual) salvation and a plan for kingdom (soulical) salvation.

This teaching really rubs people the wrong way just as it did 2,000 years ago. It got many of the apostles killed and has been attacked from the very beginning.

The Word of the Kingdom was faught against from both the liberals and the conservative religious leaders of the day, and it is no different than today. While they can't agree on much they do agree on this one message, and as you can see from some here on this board the attacks can sometime be very vicious.

And I wouldn't be surprised if human history goes long enough that the attacks could get worse, much worse.

As much as man tries to deny it we are body, soul and spirit. And God has set a plan up that deals with each aspect of our being.

And one of a number of reasons this message is so hated by the majority is that it holds people accountable. And you have two groups. One group that is "proud" of their works and thinks that everyone that doesn't have works isn't even saved, or you have the opposite group that says you can be saved, but if you don't work you will lose what you had.

Both of which are unScriptural and come from a misinterpretation of works.

If you are truly interested in learning more about the Scriptural foundation of this teaching I would be more than happy to share some resources with you.

EDIT: I would like to clear something up. Those that "try" to debunk this teaching keep trying to get people to see two "different" plans of salvation. And I have often used that terminology before to help people understand, but it's not two different "plans" of salvation. God has a plan of salvation that has different aspects to it. The Bible uses three different ways to talk about salvation: I am saved or I have been saved, I am being saved and I will be saved.

What we must do is understand what the Scripture says about I have been saved and what that means, I am being saved and what that means and I will be saved and what that means.

Well, there you have the weasel wording to get out of what they teach. Jumpy once categorized it as two plans of salvation but Herb Evans dare not. What in the world does past present and future have to do with it, when eternity and the kingom are both future? Spiritual and soulical salvation? Now, that is a novel approach to be saved from hellfire in eternity and hellfire during the kingdom. Did you get the denying that man is body, soul, and spirit thingie? Who did that? And this guy is setting himself up as a martyr, a victim?
What a crock! -- Herb Evans :sleep:

 

[Herb Evans]

Well, now we have heard an invented pontification based nothing but Dr. Fuss' word for it. I would love to find a real Christian that desires to forfeit his salvation. Wow! -- Herb Evans

There are more members converted to the Morman religion from SBC Baptist churches than from any other denomination. To be a member of these churches, a person is supposed to be a real Christian. I assume you have heard of the SBC.

Yes, I vaguely heard of it. Isn't that the one with all the modernist professors in their colleges? But you could cite the JW's. Almost every JW that I run into used to be a Baptist. Conclusion? Our churches are filled with lost people not people who are saved and get lost. -- Herb Evans

 

[drfuss]

Yes, I vaguely heard of it. Isn't that the one with all the modernist professors in their colleges? But you could cite the JW's. Almost every JW that I run into used to be a Baptist. Conclusion? Our churches are filled with lost people not people who are saved and get lost. -- Herb Evans

I see. So many members of Baptist churches just believe they are saved, but they are not really saved. Too bad.

As a believer in conditional security, I know I am a Christian now because I am trusting Christ as my Savior. Since I am going to continue to trust Christ, I know I am secure. Apparently, if one believes in eternal security, he does not know for sure now if he is one of those that just thinks he is a Christain or if he is a real Christian.

Sounds to me like one who believes in conditional security is more secure that one who believes in eternal security.

 

[Herb Evans]

I see. So many members of Baptist churches just believe they are saved, but they are not really saved. Too bad.

As a believer in conditional security, I know I am a Christian now because I am trusting Christ as my Savior. Since I am going to continue to trust Christ, I know I am secure. Apparently, if one believes in eternal security, he does not know for sure now if he is one of those that just thinks he is a Christain or if he is a real Christian.

Sounds to me like one who believes in conditional security is more secure that one who believes in eternal security.

I don't much care what theological term folks use for things, as long as they make it clear to others. I doubt very many folks will understand your new term. What saved folks know for sure is their experience. I know what my experience is and I know that I am saved for and through eternity. The Bible tells us that the saved person has the witness in himself. -- Herb Evans

 

[James_Newman]

Sounds to me like one who believes in conditional security is more secure that one who believes in eternal security.

It sounds that way to me, too, sometimes...

 

[rsr]

Since this seems to have turned into a spitting match (not to be too vulgar about it), the thread is serving no useful purpose and is closed. In the future, try to keep the vitriol and belittling to a minimum.