Conspiracy Theory of USS Liberty

LadyEagle · Oct 22, 2004

Not really. The Nation of Israel will be vindicated in the end. God will have the final say at the Great Battle of Armageddon.

Ezekiel chapters 38 and 39.

[ October 22, 2004, 01:14 AM: Message edited by: LadyEagle ]

Phillip · Oct 23, 2004

It is interesting to watch people try to make a conspiracy theory out of things that happen between governments and military. Things go on that cannot be discussed all of the time and speculation is the only reality to the civilian.

Take for example the time the United States lost a load of Plutonium off of the shore of Spain and suddenly Israel turns up with just about exactly the number of tactical nukes that could be made with the amount lost.

The United States and Israel play a game. Notice when Israel strikes a Palestinian target, the US will issue a stern warning to Israel while secretly applauding the pre-emptive strikes.

I must say as another poster did earlier that if I were to bet on America or Israel, I would have to pick Israel. Israel will remain, there are no guarantees with America. Sad, but true.

KenH · Oct 23, 2004

Originally posted by Phillip:
Israel will remain, there are no guarantees with America.
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No guarantees with Israel, either.

LadyEagle · Oct 23, 2004

just-want-peace · Oct 23, 2004

No guarantees with Israel, either.
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Agreed; IF you're a replacement theology advocate.

Otherwise Israel has the best guarantee available--God's promise
Rev 21:2 And I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down from God out of Heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her Husband.

LadyEagle · Oct 23, 2004

Agreed; IF you're a replacement theology advocate.
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Absolutely true.

Ken seems to always take the Replacement Theology position for some reason.

Doing so, totally ignores these coming events concerning Israel:

The 144,000 sealed by God 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes.

The rebuilding of Solomon's Temple.

The Anti-Christ making a peace treaty with Israel who will then turn on Israel 3-1/2 years later.

The 2 witnesses prophesying who will be slain in the streets of Jerusalem and then be raised from the dead 3 days later and ascend to heaven.

Hundreds of thousands of Jews accepting Yeshua.

The Gog and Magog attack upon Israel (believed to be Russia).

The other nations (Arabic and their alliances) who will invade Israel.

God's Intervention at the Battle of Armaggedon.

Jesus Christ ruling and reigning from the Throne of David on Mount Zion for 1000 years with a rod of iron.

And more....all foretold in Biblical prophecy which have not yet been fulfilled.

And the land issue hasn't been settled yet either - Israel has never possessed all the land God promised.

http://fp.thebeers.f9.co.uk/land.htm

And of course, Replacement Theology, totally ignores the Abrahamic and Davidic Covenants.

It is difficult for me to comprehend how any true Bible scholar could believe in the anti-Semitic Replacement Theology concept. God is the same yesterday, today, and forever, and so is His Word.

KenH · Oct 23, 2004

Originally posted by LadyEagle:
It is difficult for me to comprehend how any true Bible scholar could believe in the anti-Semitic Replacement Theology concept.
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That "anti-Semitic" cheap shot is below you, LadyEagle(then again maybe it isn't ).

Also, I don't believe there is such a thing as a Bible scholar. I believe there are only Bible students.

LadyEagle · Oct 24, 2004

On Replacement Theology

Basically, this belief proclaims that God is finished with the Jews: that Christianity has indeed replaced Judaism and that the Church is the true Israel. This theology universally applies all the scriptural blessings to the Church, and all the curses to Israel.

To show the fallacy of this teaching, read Romans 9-11 and everywhere it reads “Israel,” replace it with the words, “the Church.” You will quickly see how erroneous is this theology. Israel is Israel, even in the New Testament. And, when the Gentile Church is included in that concept, we are given that position by virtue of “grafting in,” “adoption,” “partakers,” and being “made near:” never by “replacing.”

Of course, the almost immediate result of such a theology was the outright persecution of Israel by the Church. This malady has persisted through most of the 2,000 years of Christian history, contributing even to the Nazi Holocaust. It is surprising for most Christians to learn that Hitler only put into practice what the Church in Europe had believed and taught for centuries.

Even today, after this awful disaster, anti-Semitism abounds in the Church. An example of this is seen in the fact that many otherwise loving Christians are suspicious of “those Jews.”
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http://www.bridgesforpeace.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1692

On "Replacement Theology"

Basically, it is a belief that entered the early Church that Christianity superseded Israel, that God's blessings were for the Church and His curses for the Jewish people, and that all the covenants and promises of the Bible now belong exclusively to the Church. This teaching led to centuries of anti-Semitism where Christians became some of the greatest enemies and persecutors of the Jewish people, contrary to the instructions of the New Testament, which we will examine in Part II.

Is the New Testament anti-Semitic? Was it Intended That the Church Treat the Jewish People with Contempt?

ABSOLUTELY NOT!

While the New Testament has been used by Gentile anti-Semites, even within the Church, the writers of the New Testament were Jewish, and therefore their arguments, even critical ones, were from the vantage point of being an intra-communal debate, not inter-communal accusation. Even where the criticism is harsh, it is directed towards a particular group or sect of Jews because of their practices, which needed correcting. For example, even though Yeshua spoke harshly to the Pharisees, He nevertheless said of them, "The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach" (Matt: 23:2-3). He was distressed that they were "missing the mark" in their self-righteousness, which is something all of us need to be careful of doing.

The clear teaching of the New Testament is that the Church was and is to love and honour the Jewish people. In Ephesians 2:11-18, we are told that "by the blood of Messiah," we Gentiles are "made near" to the commonwealth of Israel, the covenants, promises and hopes given to Israel. In Romans 11:11-12, 25, we are told that "blindness in part" has come to the Jews so that the message would be forced out into the nations. Nevertheless, we are told that a time would come when "all Israel would be saved" (v. 26), because the gifts and callings of God towards Israel and the Jewish people were given without repentance (v. 29). God's relationship with Israel and the Jewish people is everlasting.

We Gentile Christians are told that the Jews are "beloved for the sake of the Patriarchs" (Rom. 11:28). They are a chosen people who fulfilled their calling and brought the Gospel to the world.

What Happens When the Church Replaces Israel?

The Church becomes arrogant and self-centered.
It boasts against the Jews and Israel.

It devalues the role of Israel or has no role for Israel at all.

These attitudes result in anti-Semitism in word and deed.

Without a place for Israel and the Jewish people today, you cannot explain the Bible prophecies, especially the very specific ones being fulfilled in Israel today.

Many New Testament passages do not make sense when the Jewish people are replaced by the Church.

You can lose the significance of the Hebrew Scriptures, the Old Testament, for today. Many Christians boast of being a New Testament (NT) Christian or a NT Church as in the Book of Acts. However, the Bible of the early Church was not the New Testament, which did not get codified until the 4th century, but rather the Hebrew Scriptures.

You can lose the Hebraic/Judaic contextualization of the New Testament, which teaches us more about Yeshua and how to become better disciples.

The Church loses out on the opportunity to participate in God's plan and prophecy for the Church, Israel and the world today.
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Israel My Beloved

Phillip · Oct 24, 2004

Originally posted by KenH:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Phillip:
Israel will remain, there are no guarantees with America.
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No guarantees with Israel, either. </font>[/QUOTE]Obviously, your prophecy interpretation is different than mine.

Israel was prophecied to become a country again with people coming from the four corners of the Earth. This is no coincidence.

The beginning of the tribulation shows Israel being attacked and the weapons miraculously being destroyed.

Gog and Magog will attack at the valley of Armageddon where they will be beat by the Hand of God.

Finally, A new Jerusalem will appear which is where God will rule on the new Earth.

There is simply too much Biblical evidence to show Israel as being destroyed again. Of course, it might be possible, but it would become a country again before the end. This is very unlikely; however.

It is doubtful that Israel with its 70+ tactical nukes will be loose a war against its Arab neighbors. When Russia attacks and the big army from the East, Israel comes out on top every time.

I will put my money on Israel.

KenH · Oct 25, 2004

Originally posted by Phillip:
Obviously, your prophecy interpretation is different than mine.
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True. I totally reject dispensatonalism as I can find absolutely no Biblical basis for it.

Phillip · Oct 25, 2004

KenH, can you give me your brief outline of what is to happen in the future?

KenH · Oct 25, 2004

As I understand it, Jesus returns, this present heavens and earth are burned with fire, the new heavens and earth take their place, the righteous populate it immediately, and the wicked end up in Hell.

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