-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Context of Acts 13:48
- Thread starter Revmitchell
- Start date
- Status
What in the world are you trying to say?
1) Is that an actual translation? Yes.
2) Is it from a published version? Nope
Acts 13:48, Yet the Gentiles hearing this rejoiced and glorified the word of the Lord, and as many as were in agreement with the arrangement into everlasting life believed.
3) Does this translation say all Gentiles heard? Nope it says those hearing the message rejoiced and glorified the word of God.
4) Does it say all the Gentiles that heard rejoiced and gloried. Yes, but some wiggle room could be found in the claim those rejecting the offer did not "hear" it.
5) Does it say only those that agreed to the arrangement believed? Yes.
6) No, a person could understand the arrangement and agree with the need to believe fully in Christ, yet not go all in for Christ. See soil #2 from Matthew 13 for example.
7) Shall we go over "believe" once again? Yes, when a person believes according to God who knows the person's heart, they believe. Otherwise they are just professing faith, but remain in the Matthew 7 category.
LOL, POTS is for Bogus belief. OSAS is a doctrine of grace.
And folks, did Martin say saints can be lost? No he did not
LOL, POTS is for Bogus belief. OSAS is a doctrine of grace.
P.O.T.S. is in the Bible, which is no doubt why you don't like it.
No one, saint or not will be saved if he does not persevere in the faith. Did you not read the Bible verses I linked?And folks, did Martin say saints can be lost? No he did not
Every saint will persevere in the faith. Did I say otherwise? Nope, thus Martin once again is at it.
DaveXR650
Well-Known Member
I'm just saying that the above doesn't fit well into the context of the verse. It is redundant. I'll accept that there may be more than one way to translate the Greek here but this translation makes the sentence awkward. This type of trying to squeeze the meaning of a verse into a preconceived theology is what some on this thread have been accusing the Calvinists on here of doing all along. It looks like you are doing it too.
I have said before that I do not see the primary purpose of this passage of scripture as being designed to teach a lesson in predestination. But the fact that this isn't the primary purpose, yet the whole book of Acts, and indeed the whole Bible, is permeated with an assumption that the plan of salvation, of God redeeming people for Himself, is always portrayed as a predetermined projection of God's will and power - makes it all the more natural that "appointed" should be stuck in there, more as a matter of fact; as if to say "of course" they were appointed.
There have been other threads on here where I take issue with other Calvinists because I don't believe in determinism to the extent they do. But when it comes to our salvation I have to admit that this is one area where because of our sin and our natural state before God it requires an active projection of power from God or no one gets saved. In the ancient world this does not seem to be controversial. And wherever you stand on the extent of determinism and how it works, when it comes to an area where God is exerting His stated will - in that case it will happen, it must happen and it was indeed predetermined.
Wrong.
17 And from Miletus he sent to Ephesus, and called to him the elders of the church.
28 Take heed unto yourselves, and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit hath made you bishops, to feed the church of the Lord which he purchased with his own blood. Acts 20
I do not have to guess about that. The context tells me plainly. My duty is to believe the words I read.
Matt 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them (all nations) one from another, as (a metaphor) a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
The answer to your question is in the text. The sheep nations are those nations who are saved with the evidence that they had assisted the Jewish people who were persecuted during the tribulation by the Anti Christ and his forces. The text clearly says it. It does not have anything to do with election or predestination but it does have to do with an action motivated by kindness and pity. The goat nations are the opposite and empowered the persecution. The timing is when Jesus Christ is ready to inaugurate his kingdom on the earth after he returns and destroys the anti-Christ and his armies. Remember he said to Nicodemus that a man must be born again to enter his kingdom. The church is not a nation and is not the recipient of the wrath of God on guilty sinners who refuse to repent and believe his gospel.
Acts 15:12 Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them.
13 And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me:
14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
16 After this I will return, (after he has taken out from the gentiles a people for his name) and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.
18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.
19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.
Learn how to know when prophesy is fulfilled. Matt 25 is after his return and his church has been taken out. There is a King and a throne involved on earth, as well as a theocratic kingdom with citizens that must be judged for the right to be citizens.
When Matthew 25 takes place, the church will be on the earth because we will return with him, having been translated before the beginning of the tribulation of Israel.
Re 19:6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth. 7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. 8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints. 9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God. 10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. 11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. 12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. 13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords.
This is very wrong surmising. Nothing in this paragraph is true. John 10 has nothing to do with the church of Jesus Christ. Paul says the things concerning the church were hidden in time past. Jesus lived in time past and ministered to Israel only.
Help me out here. I do not see the word sheep in the passage. My statement was about sheep, and it stands.
Spot on brother!
31 But when the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the angels with him, then shall he sit on the throne of his glory:
32 and before him shall be gathered all the nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as the shepherd separateth the sheep from the goats;
33 and he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. Mt 25
28 Take heed unto yourselves, and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit hath made you bishops, to feed the church of the Lord which he purchased with his own blood. Acts 20
So was Paul's in v 28.
...only in your imagination.
So was Paul's in v 28.
...only in your imagination.
Are you actually making the claim that the church are the nations in this prophesy? They are same/same?
My head spins.
45 But when the Jews saw the multitudes...... Acts 13
16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice: and they shall become one flock, one shepherd. Jn 10
45 ..... they were filled with jealousy..... Acts 13
21 ........I will move them to jealousy with those that are not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation. Dt 32
45 ....... and contradicted the things which were spoken by Paul, and blasphemed. Acts 13
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep. Jn 10
48 And as the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of God: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed. Acts 13
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: Jn 10
unprofitable
Active Member
Do you then think he is talking about a flock of geese?
The metaphor that God uses to describe gentiles is "dogs." Gentiles are dogs in the eyes of God, not sheep.
You won't believe this, I am guessing, but I will give you one passage of many where we are told this.
Matt 15:21 Then Jesus went thence, and departed into the coasts of Tyre and Sidon. 22 And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil. 23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us. 24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me. 26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs. 27 And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table. 28 Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.
At least consider what the text says. Sheep are a metaphor for the house of Israel.
Jeremiah 50:17
Israel is a scattered sheep; the lions have driven him away: first the king of Assyria hath devoured him; and last this Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon hath broken his bones.
No. But I've no doubt you'll twist it that way. The fact is that God had a people 'not from the Jews only, but also from the Gentiles'.
23 and that he might make known the riches of his glory upon vessels of mercy, which he afore prepared unto glory,
24 even us, whom he also called, not from the Jews only, but also from the Gentiles? Ro 9
...and there were MORE of His sheep among the Gentiles than there were of the Jews:
27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; Break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: For more are the children of the desolate than of her that hath the husband. Gal 4 (Isa 54)
My theology comes from the words I read. They are the words of God. If he wanted us to think in terms of a flock of sheep he would have said so. The fact that he did not, and that in the gentile church nowhere in the 13 letters of Paul, who was charged to explain it and define it, even used the word sheep except the one time in the context of Israel and a quote from the OT, speaks much louder than my surmising.
Last edited:
The gentiles were included in a BODY, and made one. The body of Christ is a new creation. It is not a nation. It has a separate destiny than all nations, including Israel.
Eph 3:1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.
8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;
9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,
11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
I have highlighted the verse that defines the mystery. The promise is the indwelling Spirit of Christ, who is eternal life, and the righteousness of Christ, and salvation and the gift of God.
READ THIS: The promise of the Spirit was to Israel and the gentiles were later made partakers with the Jewish believers. This did not mean that the Spirit was promised to gentiles, because he was not. This is where grace comes in. God gave the Spirit and salvation to a world who does not deserve it and could lay no claim to it. So, it is grace, mercy, and peace to gentiles and now we have a definition of God's grace.
Does this make sense to you?
Ep 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
Jews, gentiles and the Spirit, in one body, a trinity.
The Jews and gentiles who have not believed have different prophesies for them in the future that must be fulfilled.
Last edited:
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Why do you get upset when I say you are a calvinist? You claim to hold to their DoG, which ones those are you did not say.
- Status