Continuation of Why Y'all Aint Calvinists thread

[Revmitchell]

Looks like your dictionary is missing a word

Unless, of course, your claim is that Monergism is not a word (even though it is listed in the dictionary as a word). Is that what you are claiming?

I am saying it has no etymology. It is a recent invention by calvies. Further:

Synergism is used in scripture but never in a soteriological context:

Rom 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

1Co 16:16 That ye submit yourselves unto such, and to every one that helpeth with us, and laboureth.

2Co 6:1 We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.

Jas 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

Scripture never defines these types of terms (i.e. synergism vs. Monergism) in soteriological contexts. In fact the only issue that is dealt with regarding works is to rely on the works of the law. "Works" is never placed in any other context in scripture. Therefore the false dichotomy calvies have created out of thin air is not supported by scripture in any way shape or form.

 

[JonC]

I am saying it has no etymology. It is a recent invention by calvies. Further:

Synergism is used in scripture but never in a soteriological context:

Rom 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

1Co 16:16 That ye submit yourselves unto such, and to every one that helpeth with us, and laboureth.

2Co 6:1 We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.

Jas 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

Scripture never defines these types of terms (i.e. synergism vs. Monergism) in soteriological contexts. In fact the only issue that is dealt with regarding works is to rely on the works of the law. "Works" is never placed in any other context in scripture. Therefore the false dichotomy calvies have created out of thin air is not supported by scripture in any way shape or form.

Who cares when the word came about. It expresses an idea and sounds much better than "unsynergism".

 

[Revmitchell]

Who cares when the word came about. It expresses an idea and sounds much better than "unsynergism".

I care, especially when calvies use words, that they make up, to create false dichotomies. Monergism only has a theological use and it was recently made up. The idea cannot found in scripture, at all, when synergism can and even then synergism is never used in the context of soteriology.

So the use of these two words to create a false dichotomy (i.e. you are either a monergist or you are a synergist.)

We cannot have peaceful discussions because Calvies want to impose their terms, which we reject, on others. No one wants that no will they accept that. Its nothing but bullying pure and simple. Now the term calvinist has such a bad connotation that calvies are running from it as fast as they can to their made up terms such a monergyst.

 

[JonC]

I care, especially when calvies use words, that they make up, to create false dichotomies. Monergism only has a theological use and it was recently made up. The idea cannot found in scripture, at all, when synergism can and even then synergism is never used in the context of soteriology.

So the use of these two words to create a false dichotomy (i.e. you are either a monergist or you are a synergist.)

We cannot have peaceful discussions because Calvies want to impose their terms, which we reject, on others. No one wants that no will they accept that. Its nothing but bullying pure and simple. Now the term calvinist has such a bad connotation that calvies are running from it as fast as they can to their made up terms such a monergyst.

I see. So Monergism is a newer word than Synergism, which was made up in the 17th century. Yet it is still a word.

I wonder if the guy who made up the word "Synergist" had such problems.

 

[Revmitchell]

I see. So Monergism is a newer word than Synergism, which was made up in the 17th century. Yet it is still a word.

I wonder if the guy who made up the word "Synergist" had such problems.

Please, please go back and read the entirety of what I posted. If we are going to discuss this further you need to bring in the whole not just your characterization.

 

[JonC]

Please, please go back and read the entirety of what I posted. If we are going to discuss this further you need to bring in the whole not just your characterization.

I did read it. Your word was made up in the 17th Century.

"1650s, "theological doctrine that human will cooperates with divine grace in regeneration" (implying that the fall did not cost the soul all inclination toward holiness), from Modern Latin synergismus, from Greek synergos "working together"

You believe that you were saved by cooperating with divine grace.

Of course, the invention of the word "synergism" implies a need for the word to distinguish it from an opposing view.

One opposing view is what is known as "Monergism" (a word one dictionary traces to the 19th Century, and is present in at least three dictionaries to include Websters).

 

[Use of Time]

I find it amusing that after having it pointed out that you were using the term “calvies” as a slur it’s almost like you are going out of your way to use the term in every subsequent post. You of course knew what you were doing there and it is childishly transparent.

 

[JonC]

I find it amusing that after having it pointed out that you were using the term “calvies” as a slur it’s almost like you are going out of your way to use the term in every subsequent post. You of course knew what you were doing there and it is childishly transparent.

It's a made up word non-Calvinists invented to express a view not present in Scripture

 

[Revmitchell]

Of course, the invention of the word "synergism" implies a need for the word to distinguish it from an opposing view.

Only in the mind of calvies. Since synergism is placed by you all in a soteriological context when scripture never does (the part you have thus far ignored) then your statement here is patently false. Synergism is only used in the contexts of the verses I supplied, in scripture that is. Monergism is unnecessary and only exists to create a false dichotomy (another portion of my posts you have failed to address).

Further Calvies are synergists unless one holds to the idea that man does not also preach the word that leads to mens salvation.

 

[JonC]

Only in the mind of calvies. Since synergism is placed by you all in a soteriological context when scripture never does (the part you have thus far ignored) then your statement here is patently false. Synergism is only used in the contexts of the verses I supplied, in scripture that is. Monergism is unnecessary and only exists to create a false dichotomy (another portion of my posts you have failed to address).

Further Calvies are synergists unless one holds to the idea that man does not also preach the word that leads to mens salvation.

I got that idea from you:

"1650s, "theological doctrine that human will cooperates with divine grace in regeneration" (implying that the fall did not cost the soul all inclination toward holiness), from Modern Latin synergismus, from Greek synergos "working together" (see synergy). Used in non-theological sense "a working together, cooperation" by 1910 (first of medicines)."

 

[James Donovan]

I can't speak for these "young men". I was a teenager when Christ saved me and about 40 when I came to understand God's sovereignty in election, but my experience might be similar.

Having read, and read, and read the scriptures, I became more and more unsettled by the teaching (or lack of it) that I was receiving in my (Pelagian - Arminian) church. At that time, I could not put my finger on it, but I knew something was wrong. It wasn't until I came to understand the DoG that I finally came to understand the Bible.

 

[James Donovan]

@James Donovan had made a comment about believing Calvinists did not understand Scripture. @TCassidy asked him why. And then the thread closed. Perhaps this will be an opportunity to continue the discussion.

This is especially important as this topic is rarely discussed on the BB.

 

[TCassidy]

Monergism a new word? Hardly!

Monergism (Greek mono meaning "one" and erg meaning "work") is a term for the belief that the Holy Spirit is the only agent who effects regeneration of Christians.

John 7:21 ἕν ἔργον "one work." Just as our salvation is "not by (our) works" but of the "one work" of Christ.

The word "Monergism" is as old as the New Testament.

 

[Iconoclast]

I think the "why I am not Calvinist" argument included something like this --

Why not be Calvinist? easy - "Calvinism does not survive the test of scripture."
================================================


John 1:11 “He came to His OWN and His OWN received Him NOT”


"God so loved the WORLD that HE gave" John 3:16.

"God is not WILLING that ANY should perish" 2Peter 3.

God knew Judas would fail - and yet he washed his feet.

God knew His own would reject Him - and yet He came to them and yet he weeps over them in places like Matt 23. "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem.. how I wanted to save your children...but YOU would not"


Matt 23
37“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling.
38“Behold, your house is being left to you desolate!

Hosea 11
:7 So My people are bent on turning from Me.
Though they call them to the One on high,
None at all exalts Him.
8 How can I give you up, O Ephraim?
How can I surrender you, O Israel?
How can I make you like Admah?
How can I treat you like Zeboiim?
My heart is turned over within Me,
All My compassions are kindled.

Ezek 18
30“Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, each according to his conduct,” declares the Lord GOD. “Repent and turn away from all your transgressions, so that iniquity may not become a stumbling block to you.
31“Cast away from you all your transgressions which you have committed and make yourselves a new heart and a new spirit! For why will you die, O house of Israel?
32“For I have no pleasure in the death of anyone who dies,” declares the Lord GOD. “Therefore, repent and LIVE!"

"He came to HIS OWN and HIS OWN received Him not" John 1:11

2Cor 5
18 Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation,
19 namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the WORLD to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
20 Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.

spamming the board with your off topic list of scriptures

 

[BobRyan]

I think the "why I am not Calvinist" argument included something like this --

Why not be Calvinist? easy - "Calvinism does not survive the test of scripture."
================================================


John 1:11 “He came to His OWN and His OWN received Him NOT”


"God so loved the WORLD that HE gave" John 3:16.

"God is not WILLING that ANY should perish" 2Peter 3.

God knew Judas would fail - and yet he washed his feet.

God knew His own would reject Him - and yet He came to them and yet he weeps over them in places like Matt 23. "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem.. how I wanted to save your children...but YOU would not"


Matt 23
37“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling.
38“Behold, your house is being left to you desolate!

Hosea 11
:7 So My people are bent on turning from Me.
Though they call them to the One on high,
None at all exalts Him.
8 How can I give you up, O Ephraim?
How can I surrender you, O Israel?
How can I make you like Admah?
How can I treat you like Zeboiim?
My heart is turned over within Me,
All My compassions are kindled.

Ezek 18
30“Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, each according to his conduct,” declares the Lord GOD. “Repent and turn away from all your transgressions, so that iniquity may not become a stumbling block to you.
31“Cast away from you all your transgressions which you have committed and make yourselves a new heart and a new spirit! For why will you die, O house of Israel?
32“For I have no pleasure in the death of anyone who dies,” declares the Lord GOD. “Therefore, repent and LIVE!"

"He came to HIS OWN and HIS OWN received Him not" John 1:11

2Cor 5
18 Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation,
19 namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the WORLD to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
20 Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.

spamming the board with your off topic list of scriptures

Some Calvinists refer to every instance of Calvinism-refuting-texts as "spam" because... well... they can't refute them... so what "else" were they going to do?

I think we can all see that.

And of course the whole point of this thread is to continue the calvinism-refuting discussion from the Bible.

 

[Rippon]

I'm not quite sure if it's Fee or myself that Rippon is asking prayer for!
If it's Gordon Fee, I'm very sorry to hear this. I know enough people who have the disease to know how terrible it is.

Dr. Fee has the disease.

However, I do not care for his work. Like N.T. Wright he is the more dangerous to the unsuspecting reader because he is so often right.

Any legitimate truth-seeking scholar will often be right. No one person has all the right answers/conclusions. If, as you say, he is so often right, we need to pay attention and give respect to his endeavors. But always, as we must do, use discernment.

 

[Iconoclast]

Some Calvinists refer to every instance of Calvinist-refuting-texts as "spam" because well... they can't refute them... so what "else" were they going to do?

I think we can all see that.

we can all see you spamming the board....with verses that have been answered many times.

 

[BobRyan]

we can all see you spamming the board....

The verses are irrefutable -- so you simply call them spam as you did when you first saw them.

What is 'not to get'???

This is the easy part.

Your tactic is far more transparent than you may have at first imagined to yourself.

Your response to scripture that refutes calvinism? it is the much expected false-accusation and ad hominem derail.

Were we supposed to be surprised that this is the discussion you would prefer rather than scripture? Seriously?

 

[Reformed]

I believe scripture teaches Adam was our fair and just representative. Adam was our federal head.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

@JonC, you liked this post but I am interested in whether you agree with my statement on the federal headship view or not.

 

[Reformed]

The need to be right.

Brother, I do not need to be right. I want to be right if for no other reason than I do not want to intentionally mispresent the scriptures.