37818
Well-Known Member
It is. Unfortunately it is miss characterized by those both for and against.
Do you or do you not understand the two deaths of Christ on the cross? Each has it's purpose.
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Continued from dead tulip
- Thread starter JonC
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Do you or do you not understand the two deaths of Christ on the cross? Each has it's purpose.
You haven’t….who wrote the book on Lordship Salvation?
That’s not what their Reformed Pastors tell them… so are Presbyterian and Dutch Reformed Christians not biblical?
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
When it comes to Baptism? No, they are not.
Coming from a Baptist
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
Coming from Scripture.
Ahh, the very Lordship Salvation rears it’s ugly head. Ya made my point!
So then, they are not saved right!
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
Did I say they were not saved? No. Did I say they are not living in obedience by not getting baptized? Yes. Do I think they are intentionally disobedient? No.
So no, that did not prove your point at all.
But do you distinguish regeneration from conversion?
Lordship Salvation, nor his book on it, claims non-Cals are not saved. Lordship Salvation is equally compatible with Calvinism or Arminianism.
Yes, the fundamental Christian church does not put a Baptistic ceremony before salvation. My own church would insist on their being dunked as a prerequisite to joining and taking communion but would not prohibit them from going there and learning from them…and I hope they do, but we do not prohibit them in the hope they will learn. I fervently believe that Baptist churches of old operated that way….ie they probably are regenerated but not yet converted so we teach them scripture, we teach proper obedience, etc in order to make them better Christian’s. And isn’t that the primary job of the Baptist church?
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Lordship Salvation teaches only “one” salvation popularized by MacArthur, Piper, Sproul, Mohler…as a kind of classical reformed theology. Mac published a book titled “The Gospel According To Jesus” so have you read it? I did and what I came away with is Macs assertion that an individual who fails to live in submission to the Lordship of Christ demonstrates that he was never truly born again…that they are not really saved. This assertion neglects to make a distinction between “Sonship” and “Discipleship”
I do understand what you believe the two deaths on the cross are, if that helps.
For most of my life I would have agreed with your view. I taught your view and it affected how I preached sermons of the Cross.
It is not a lack of understanding on my part but a lack of acceptance (I get what you are saying, but do not believe it is what the Bible teaches).
I agree your position is often misrepresented by those for and against it. We see this misrepresentation in the "cosmic child abuse" argument (for example).
Yes. Only the 'heavenly born' can be 'saved' into the kingdom.
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
How is that any different than what I have said? It's not. Our church does require members to have had beleiver's baptism, but we don't require that of people who attend or take communion. My point was that Scripture says repentance comes before baptism. So no, infant baptism is not in any way, shape, or form a valid baptism.
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
Exactly. It is no different than someone not exhibiting fruits of the spirit. It comes with your conversion. The true believers will always fall under the Lordship of Christ.
Yes you are. What you mean is, that He came into a fallen environment, not that our sins were charged to Him.
Featured threads. Is the owner of the BB even a Baptist?
I understand
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