Continuing the eschatology

[agedman]

Do some not realize that ungodly will try to copy the light, but are not “originators” of light? There is nothing the ungodly can “create” but perversion of that which is Godly.

Only God is the creator.

“Futurist” thinking didn’t begin with the ungodly. That is misdirection propagated by those who would promote either the ungodly and/or that which is self promoting.

I look to the future. I trust in the future for that is what the definition of faith includes

Faith - The assurance of that HOPED FOR that substance of is yet to be seen. (Hebrews 11)

Does one have true faith if they are not future oriented?

Only the Lord knows.

But the idea that “futurists” are somehow in league with the ungodly or that the ungodly created futurists is just wrong thinking, IMO.

 

[agedman]

Before this thread closes, I want to thank all the participants for being reasonably reasonable and placing the discussion above that which is petty.

I enjoyed this thread, and trust that the topic will continue in another.

 

[David Kent]

One thing for certain-- The events of AD 70 did not come like a thief in the night (Matthew 24:43; 1 Thessalonians 5:2; Revelation 15:16 etc).

I did not suggest that. That is not in the reply of Jesus, to His original point but in reply to the off topic question about the Lord returning, and when. There were two unrelated questions (or 2+2 if you prefer) and two separate answers, separated by "BUT" in verse 36.

Jesus gave an answer to when the Temple would be destroyed, When you see the Abomination of Desolation standing where it should not, that is "When you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies. then know that its desolation is nigh." They did see and scarpered, Did they come back? Would you if your nation had just defeated the most powerful nation in the world, a nation that is not known to accept defeat lightly and had many more legions to replace the defeated one, who would return and impose retribution?

The first part was fulfilled historically and literally, the second part is in the future.

 

[prophecy70]

The reason he always gives the same response is that you can't answer it. If Christ returned in 70 AD it would be the second most momentous event in the history of mankind (the first being His first advent). Yet, for some strange reason nobody seems to have noticed it. Not a single word in written history. Not a single painting depicting the momentous event. No record at all. None.

Nope. The sun μεταστραφησεται (shall be turned), Future, passive, indicative. In fact all the verbs are future.

He was just repeating Joels, prophecy

It was future tense in the prophecy.

 

[prophecy70]

A thief doesn't show up several months before the event.

I highly doubt 1.1 million jews were aware of it and let it happen.

 

[Yeshua1]

I am wanting to repk


I can tell you have little patience for preterism. That, of course, makes discussion with you difficult. Unfortunate. But I am also reminded of the time when I had a discussion board and I was very hard on those preterists - especially those nasty full-blown preterists.

But they provoked me into a closer study of God's precious Word. And eventually I came around.

Don't lose patience with me. I am a fellow brother in Christ who loves the Lord and who loves God's Word. And I know I am always required to speak the truth as I see it responsibly, soberly, lovingly. I don't care that you quote Doctor This or Professor That (You tend to over do this) but when you - or anyone else quotes Scripture - I always look it up if I don't know it. I am here to learn. But I am also here to share what I know.

Full blown version of this is heresy, and has been condemned as such bu the historical church, as it denies the Second Coming, and physical resurrection of the saints!

 

[David Kent]

I highly doubt 1.1 million jews were aware of it and let it happen.

But they were not Christians, and would not have been told of Christ's warning, or would not believe it, just as people today will not believe it when we preach that Christ is coming for judgement on sinners.

 

[David Kent]

Full blown version of this is heresy, and has been condemned as such bu the historical church, as it denies the Second Coming, and physical resurrection of the saints!

Futurism is a modern teaching for the protestant church, and Paul warns us that false teachers would come in the last days, teaching doctrines of devils. But not so modern for the Catholics,

 

[robycop3]

But it did. It was "on that generation." I am sorry you just do not understand either Bible teaching or its relation to History.

You just cling to the Jesuit futurist teaching and bend your facts to fit.

My facts come from UNDENIABLE HISTORY. Those events are entirely-absent from it. You CANNOT prove differently. So, they're still future.

 

[robycop3]

Futurism is a modern teaching for the protestant church, and Paul warns us that false teachers would come in the last days, teaching doctrines of devils. But not so modern for the Catholics,

OK, then, Sir, please ***PROVE*** that the following prophesied events have already happened, & please name the people involved, if a name is called for.

Who was the "beast/antichrist/man of sin" & who was his deputy, the false prophet?

When was the marka the beast issued, and what did it look like? And what was the name of the man who issued it?

When did the "abomination of desolation" occur, complete with a speaking statue of the "beast"?

When did the great trib occur, complete with a hail of 100-lb. rocks, destruction of all life in the seas, all green grass being burned up, etc?

And if the great trib has already occurred, how come Jesus didn't return IMMEDIATELY AFTERWARD, as He said He would?

Now, let's see who's teaching the doctrine of devils!

 

[robycop3]

But they were not Christians, and would not have been told of Christ's warning, or would not believe it, just as people today will not believe it when we preach that Christ is coming for judgement on sinners.

If the pret pronouncements are true, Jesus is LONG-OVERDUE! But I believe JESUS, not the prets.

 

[TCassidy]

Futurism is a modern teaching for the protestant church,

The vast majority of the early ECFs were futurists.

 

[Yeshua1]

The vast majority of the early ECFs were futurists.

Yes, as they held to what would be called historical Premil viewpoint, as The pretierist and Amil would be the later ones that come.

 

[David Kent]

OK, then, Sir, please ***PROVE*** that the following prophesied events have already happened, & please name the people involved, if a name is called for.

1 Who was the "beast/antichrist/man of sin" & who was his deputy, the false prophet?

2 When was the marka the beast issued, and what did it look like? And what was the name of the man who issued it?

3 When did the "abomination of desolation" occur, complete with a speaking statue of the "beast"?

4 When did the great trib occur, complete with a hail of 100-lb. rocks, destruction of all life in the seas, all green grass being burned up, etc?

5 And if the great trib has already occurred, how come Jesus didn't return IMMEDIATELY AFTERWARD, as He said He would?

Now, let's see who's teaching the doctrine of devils!

That is easy.

1 The man of sin/antichrist is the pope. His deputy is the Black Pope, the general of the Jesuits,

2 The mark of the beast is the sign of the cross given by the right hand on the forehead by the priest at RC "baptism". without which nobody could conduct business in the dark ages.

3 The "abomination of desolation" has noting to do with any speaking statue. You are very good at inventing things. The first part of the Olivet prophecy was all to do with Jesus comment about the destruction of the temple. That has happened. The temple is not there, show me where it is if you disagree.

4 The great tribulation in the Olivet prophecy happened during the Roman war. The rest is in Revelation.

5 Great tribulation in Revelation is on the church, It is still going on.

 

[David Kent]

The vast majority of the early ECFs were futurists.

No they were not. The prophecies that they saw to be fulfilled were future to them but they are now history. Rome was conquered by 10 kings, they gave power to the papacy, he overthrew 3 of them all past now, but future to them

 

[David Kent]

The vast majority of the early ECFs were futurists.

Some did think the last 3½ years of the 70 weeks may be future. They mostly thought that the Antichrist would follow immediately after the Roman Empire fell an the Emperor was take away. Then would be the end of all things (Tertullian)

 

[David Kent]

While most of the ECF seemed to be pre mil, I cannot see that Tertullian was as given in my post above.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

I did not suggest that. That is not in the reply of Jesus, to His original point but in reply to the off topic question about the Lord returning, and when. There were two unrelated questions (or 2+2 if you prefer) and two separate answers, separated by "BUT" in verse 36.

Jesus gave an answer to when the Temple would be destroyed, When you see the Abomination of Desolation standing where it should not, that is "When you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies. then know that its desolation is nigh." They did see and scarpered, Did they come back? Would you if your nation had just defeated the most powerful nation in the world, a nation that is not known to accept defeat lightly and had many more legions to replace the defeated one, who would return and impose retribution?

The first part was fulfilled historically and literally, the second part is in the future.

I agree with you (I think!). My point was (is) that AD 70 cannot be the Return of Christ because there were signs of it beforehand (Matthew 24:32-34) and it did not come like a thief in the night (v.36).

 

[Squire Robertsson]

This thread is closed.

Six Hour Warning
This thread will be closed sometime after 3 PM Pacific.