Contraception

[James Flagg]

Originally posted by gb93433:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by James Flagg:
Why should any of us care about what some Catholic dogmatist thinks?

My point was that he referred to them as the best Christian thinkers. </font>[/QUOTE]Not you gb, I was referring to the OP.

 

[Born Again Catholic]

I am not talking about just some denominations or just the Catholic Church I am talking about the teaching of all, repeat all, Christian denominations including Baptists from the first century to the twentieth century a span of 1900 years. As scripture promises that the Holy Spirit would guide the church to truth, I submit it is impossible for all of Christianity to have taught mistakenly for 1900 years.

In those years all christian denomiantions taught about the evils of contraception, I already posted quotes from the reformers which compare this sin to homosexuality, murder and abortion.

As most of you are Baptist you should atleast consider why you have departed from hundreds of years of historic Baptist teaching for something that does not serve a Godly purpose but simply serves your carnal desires. It is just like those who today call themselves christians but defend homosexuality and abortion, in another 50-100 years are yous sure most Baptists won't support these grievous sins as well,.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Psalm 127 tells us 'Lo, children are an heritage of the Lord; and the fruit of the womb His reward'.

Nothing more should have to be said. God gives children. Our bodies belong to God as we read in 1 Corinthians 6:19, 20.

We have no right to stop life, whether by contraceptive, or abortion. Stopping life when it comes to preventing birth is playing God

 

[gb93433]

Originally posted by standingfirminChrist:
Psalm 127 tells us 'Lo, children are an heritage of the Lord; and the fruit of the womb His reward'.

We have no right to stop life, whether by contraceptive, or abortion. Stopping life when it comes to preventing birth is playing God

So how many kids would you suggest a lady have?

One of my friends from high school lived in a family which had 20 kids by the same mom and dad and lived in two houses. Another I knew lived in a single wide trailer and had 13 kids. Another I knew had ten kids and they had a maid to help the family.

 

[gb93433]

Originally posted by Born Again Catholic:
As most of you are Baptist you should atleast consider why you have departed from hundreds of years of historic Baptist teaching for something that does not serve a Godly purpose but simply serves your carnal desires.

For thousands of years the average age of death was about 40. Is going to see a doctor playing with God?

 

[Born Again Catholic]

For thousands of years the average age of death was about 40. Is going to see a doctor playing with God?

Not quite sure what you are saying but are you trying to equating the prevention of life "contraception" with the protection of life a doctor might perform by curing of a disease which makes us live longer. A child is not a disease. Life and our participation in the miracle of creation should be treated with respect not as a disease to be prevented(contraception) or a disease which we need to be cured of (abortion), just as conservative christain leaders of all denominations predicted in the early 20th century predicted this contraceptive mentality has led to the thinking which accepts abortion.

The primary purpose of contraception is to prevent life this simply is not a Holy purpose but an intrinsically evil one.

 

[rlvaughn]

Originally posted by gb93433:
One of my friends from high school lived in a family which had 20 kids by the same mom and dad and lived in two houses. Another I knew lived in a single wide trailer and had 13 kids. Another I knew had ten kids and they had a maid to help the family.

By posting this you are attempting to prove what? That you know some people who had a lot of kids? That you think they shouldn't have?

 

[Priscilla Ann]

Born Again Catholic:

So you believe people should not practice birth control, just keep having babies without regard to their ability to provide for their children financially? The physical and emotional health of the parents is completely irrelevant?

I work in a school. I see what happens to children who are unwanted and not properly cared for.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

The contraceptive is nothing but a legal means for people to participate in fulfilling sexual lusts without consequences.

If a person does not want children or cannot afford children, then abstinence would be the best thing for that person.

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by standingfirminChrist:
The contraceptive is nothing but a legal means for people to participate in fulfilling sexual lusts without consequences.

Sexual lusts within marriage are perfectly permissible, and should be encouraged. So your "lust" argument is bogus.

If a person does not want children or cannot afford children, then abstinence would be the best thing for that person.

Can't find any scripture that says that.

 

[KenH]

Originally posted by standingfirminChrist:
If a person does not want children or cannot afford children, then abstinence would be the best thing for that person.

You are out of agreement with the Bible there:

1 Cor. 7:3-5 (ESV)
The husband should give to his wife her conjugal rights, and likewise the wife to her husband. [4] For the wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. Likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does. [5] Do not deprive one another, except perhaps by agreement for a limited time, that you may devote yourselves to prayer; but then come together again, so that Satan may not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Children are an heritage of the Lord. Man has no business preventing birth through contraceptives

 

[KenH]

I disagree that contraceptives are wrong. God gave a brain in order to make wise choices. Having 20 children in today's world is not a wise choice.

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by standingfirminChrist:
Children are an heritage of the Lord. Man has no business preventing birth through contraceptives

Children being a heritage does not equate to children being a mandate. To claim so is legalism, pure and simple.

 

[Trotter]

The primary purpose of contraception is to prevent life this simply is not a Holy purpose but an intrinsically evil one.

That's strange... I can't quite seem to find the verse for this...

You don't agree with contraception. That's fine. But to attempt to elevate your own bias to what is good or evil is a bit egotistical.

In Christ,
Trotter

 

[zealouswest]

Fun quotes:

Martin Luther

"[T]he exceedingly foul deed of Onan, the basest of wretches . . . is a most disgraceful sin. It is far more atrocious than incest and adultery. We call it unchastity, yes, a sodomitic sin. For Onan goes in to her—that is, he lies with her and copulates—and, when it comes to the point of insemination, spills the semen, lest the woman conceive. Surely at such a time the order of nature established by God in procreation should be followed. Accordingly, it was a most disgraceful crime. . . . Consequently, he deserved to be killed by God. He committed an evil deed. Therefore, God punished him" (Commentary on Genesis).

John Calvin

"The voluntary spilling of semen outside of intercourse between man and woman is a monstrous thing. Deliberately to withdraw from coitus in order that semen may fall on the ground is doubly monstrous. For this is to extinguish the hope of the race and to kill before he is born the hoped-for offspring" (Commentary on Genesis).

John Wesley

"Onan, though he consented to marry the widow, yet to the great abuse of his own body, of the wife he had married, and the memory of the brother that was gone, refused to raise of seed to his brother. Those sins that dishonor the body and defile it are very displeasing to God and evidences of vile affections. Observe, the thing which he did displeased the Lord—and it is to be feared; thousands, especially of single persons, by this very thing, still displease the Lord and destroy their own souls" (Commentary on Genesis).

 

[zealouswest]

Sexual lusts within marriage are perfectly permissible, and should be encouraged. So your "lust" argument is bogus.

Erotic Love and Lust are two entierly seperate things. Lust uses. Love shares and gives.

 

[Born Again Catholic]

The people that think the bible doesn't given us too much direction on sexuality and having children should reread their Bibles

Every act of purposefully non-reproductive intercourse is met with the death penalty in the Bible this includes contraceptive acts homosexual acts, and act with animals.,

Examples

Withdrawal/Wasting seed/contraceptive act (Genesis 38:8-10)
Male homosexual intercourse (Leviticus 20:13)
Male bestiality (Leviticus 20:15)
Female bestiality (Leviticus 20:16)

In Romans we are also warned agianst practicing unnatural relations such as gay relations and yet people say mimicing the procreative potential of homosexual relationships in their marital relationships is natural and moral, disgusting.

In addittion acts of sterlization such as testicle crushing are condemned by scripture, yet today people have themselves, the temple of the Lord, mutilated and brag about how they got fixed,

Other will say Amen Lord I am one flesh with my spouse but I just one this one very natural and healthy part of their flesh destroyed. They tell a lie with their body.

God is the author of life Satan is the destoyer of life, by constantly destroying the potential of life whose team do you think you are on.

 

[zealouswest]

the population of the world simply annot grow indefinately. Something is going to stop it someday. Here are the choices:

a) Voluntary birth control

b) Disease

c) War

d) Famine

I have a hard time believing that contraception will end disease, war and famine. Shoot, if it does, who need Christ!? They probably come with eternal security of salvation too.

 

[hillclimber]

[ December 30, 2005, 07:03 PM: Message edited by: hillclimber ]