contraception

I think I better understand the question now.

Onan was commanded, so the act of spilling his seed was his sin.

I see no biblical reference to abstain from sex unless you are trying to concieve. I also see nothing wrong with trying not to have children but enjoying sex none-the-less.

 

Yeah, and we were pretty good at it, too. Here's a graph of the world's population: http://www.census.gov/ipc/www/img/worldpop.gif

This graph shows the population growth since 1950 and projects to the year 2050. Right now we're at about 6.2 BILLION people. I'd say we multiplied and filled to a great degree!

On the subject of Onanism, Mr. Curtis is quite correct. The sin was not the spilling of the seed in itself. It was the fact that Onan went against the command of Judah. By the way, for anyone out there that is not aware and may read this, premature withdrawl is NOT an effective means of birth control!!! It is a game of Russian Roulette.

 

Is the use of contraceptives wrong? No
Is Abortion Murder? Yes
What about the pill? Could it cause abortion? Yes
Is it ok to use the pill? Every sincere Christian should think long and hard before they say "Yes"

One brother, with whom I rarely disagree, has stated here that "God is bigger than a pill." That's true. But if I fire a gun at someone, the fact that God is bigger than the bullet does not remove my guilt if the person dies.

Please read Does the Birth Control Pill Cause Abortions? I fear that Christians are being inconsistent when they condemn abortion, but don't evaluate the use of the pill thoroughly.

[ April 12, 2002, 10:02 AM: Message edited by: TimothyW ]

 

Are you guys referring to the pill known as RU486 also known as the "day after pill"?

 

From this site: http://www.hoptechno.com/book49.htm

BTW, I will add that in the time that Margie and I have been married (one year on the 15th) she has had (at least) one miscarriage, one eptopic pregnancy, and is now six months pregnant so I am approaching this from a doctrinal stand not a personal one. Basically, she's been pregnant more in our marriage than not.

 

Why won't you offer on it?

 

This is not what Natural Family Planning is. I can apply NFP to what you just said is what you have the right to. Read up on NFP before you tell me what it is.

 

Timothy,

Could you please elaborate more than just a simple NO?

 

I do not see a biblical mandate that requires us to abstain from all forms of birth control. However, because I strongly believe abortion to be wrong, I believe each method of birth control must be evaluated as to whether is is preventive or abortive.

My problem with the birth control pill is that it can be abortive; that it can prevent implantation after the egg has been fertilized (which I see as the moment of conception). The effect of the pill, in this case, becomes abortive rather than preventive.

 

Onan's sin was not the spilling of his seed on teh ground. It was his failure to live up to his obligation to further his brother's lines. He did it, not for gratification, but "in order to not to give offspring to his brother." Thus, Scripture answers the question for us.

 

Contraception is immoral for the simple reason that it contradicts the Natural Law.

I noticed that Clint wrote, "This graph shows the population growth since 1950 and projects to the year 2050. Right now we're at about 6.2 BILLION people. I'd say we multiplied and filled to a great degree! which implies quite an atheistic viewpoint.

God has control over creation, and the motives behind contraception are plain and clear: Individuals want control over creation and sex without the burden of raising the fruits of the marital act. Cutting the fruits off of the marital act divorces the act from its meaning, and the consequences are horrendous. Pope Paul VI foresaw these consequences in Humanae Vitae; now, he's considered a prophet.

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-vi_enc_25071968_humanae-vitae_en.html

God bless,

Carson

[ April 12, 2002, 04:37 PM: Message edited by: Carson Weber ]

 

I'm not sure if I accept the notion that Onan's sin was the failure to live up to the Levirate law (which requires the brother to father a child for a dead brother's widow). If this were the case, why wasn't Onan's other brother, Shelah, not punished for failing to father a son with Tamar?

Onan's sin, then, was his enjoyment of sex for no purpose other than selfish gratification. He decided to get it on with Tamar - but he decided to forgo the consequences of such an act.

In any case, though, the case of Onan isn't central to Catholic's belief of contraception - in fact, it's not even mentioned in the Cathecism.

 

Carson -

Because I showed a graph gathered by the US census bureau showing that the world population has been on a steady increase, I'm showing an athiestic view? Procreation was commanded by God to man. We did it. The only three cases of man not being involved in a pregnancy are Adam, Eve, and Christ.

Your comment was insulting.

 

OH! I get it! Like the celibacy of the Catholic clergy!

 

Y'know Carson, speaking of athiestic viewpoints, thanks for all the help that you added with your amazing Catholic education to the debates with the athiest in all other discussions last week!

 

OH! I get it! Like the celibacy of the Catholic clergy!</font>[/QUOTE]How is what Carson said related to celibacy? How does celibacy "cut off the fruits of the marital act" when they aren't married?" You're pulling at straws to attack an unrelated issue.

 

Note that abortion isn't mentioned in the Bible, and people will debate you until they turn blue that abortion isn't murder. When they ask to show from Scripture proof that abortion is sinful, you're going to show them verses that are only implicitly related.

Now, how is this different from contraception? Do you realize how many variations of sin there are in the world? Are all expected to be stated explictly in the Bible? Or should we follow our conscience in knowing what is right and wrong, what is moral and immoral. It's easy to give into temptation and continue doing it, because you don't want to lose the "privalege."

 

As for how clergy celibacy relates to cutting off the fruits of sex, if Carson is going to cite the example of the commision of Adam and Eve to be fruitful and multiply, how is the practice of the Catholic clergy's denial of marriage any different from any other form of ignoring that command?

[ April 13, 2002, 12:47 PM: Message edited by: Clint Kritzer ]

 

There is nothing wrong with not being married - some are called to it, others are not. St Paul himself was celibate:

"Now to the unmarried and to widows, I say: it is a good thing for them to remain as they are, as I do, but if they cannot exercise self-control they should marry, for it is better to marry than to be on fire. "
(1 Corinthians Chap. 7, 8-9)

 

I am aware of Paul's teachings. Right now I'm focused on Carson's statement of "Contraception is immoral for the simple reason that it contradicts the Natural Law" and "God has control over creation, and the motives behind contraception are plain and clear: Individuals want control over creation and sex without the burden of raising the fruits of the marital act." If the "law" that he is referring to is not the command to Adam and Eve, what pray tell is it?

I am NOT the one here saying that not having children is against the natural order of things!