Contraception

Jensen,

Right on!

We have eight children and God has always met our needs. We are not kooks. We trusted God and he blessed us with eight wonderful kids.

Most Christians are too selfish to trust God is this area, and under the guise of "responsibility" they snicker at those who do trust God.

But after they limit their family's size to two or three, why aren't they adopting one or more of these starving children in the world they claim to care so much about. Oh, I know, you can't raise more than two kids well in this world today. It's not economically possible!

But they can buy a new car, live in fancy houses, wear the finest clothes, take expensive vacations, etc.

"Seek first the kingdom of God and all these things will be added unto you" has become "Seek first what my lifestyle demands and fit God in where I can!"

 

About 20 years ago Minnesota required the parents to be notified before a minor could have an abortion. When that happened the abortion rate and pre-teen pregnancy rate went down to 25 percent of what it was.

 

The Lord never condemned riches. He only condemned poor stewardship, and that included His praise about the widow's mite.

I am 78, raised two daughters and now living on pensions. Still, wife and I support 4 children through a Christian mission. How many are you supporting in the world, before you point more condemnatory fingers?

By the way, I drive a 1980 truck and wife drives an older car...and we could well afford to buy new vehicles, but we prefer to use our monies wisely. That is what God expects of us.

Now, become a minister in a city slum and tell me that there are not poor families with many children living malnourished, suffering in school as a side-effect, and facing the same future. Now, how responsible is that?

I grew up with that in East London...the slum of England, in the years when the average family was 7 and all on 30 bob a week income....mums didn't go to work then. During the 30's and 40's, we were sent to market to get the food for our supper,,when we could afford it. Didn't have benefits in those days. Sixty years later, and we still have children going hungry in this country despite welfare payments.

The USA telly reported that one in four children in the USA go to bed hungry each and every night...they are usually in large families.

Sorry, I praise God for my two daughters and responsible living.

Cheers,

Jim

 

George Mueller started a very successful orphanage instead of making more kids.

When I was a kid I was good friends with a family who decided that when one of their children left home they would adopt a baby. Within a few years they adopted four babies who are now grown and have their own families.


Some people choose to help those who are already on this earth rather than make more kids.

 

Paul33, Jim and I have 3 grown children and we legally adopted our daughter's newborn son 10 years ago. That makes us 58 and 54 with a 10 year old.

Again, I assume you're still young. Consider that I'm 54 and have JUST gone through menopause. We've been married almost 35 years. I could potentially have 40 some kids! My last 2 birth children were 15 months apart even tho I breast fed exclusively.

Diane

 

Jim1999,
I believe that I never said for someone to have kids, sit back and do nothing, and expect God to pour out manna from the sky! True believers, those who God promised to care for, will work and not be slothful. God will provide for His! He will provide in a number of ways...a better job if needed, wiser use of the existing resources (too many Americans spend way too much money on "trash" and other wasteful items), and, only at a last resort, other believers will be used & blessed by God to assist other members of the body. [if you have not done that before, you ought to try it...it is a blessing!]

As for us worshipping different Gods, I hope you worship the Lord Jesus Christ (and not Budda or something) because it was Jesus Himself who said: im Matthew 6, "25"Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more important than food, and the body more important than clothes? 26Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? 27Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to his life[a]?
28"And why do you worry about clothes? See how the lilies of the field grow. They do not labor or spin. 29Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. 30If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you, O you of little faith? 31So do not worry, saying, 'What shall we eat?' or 'What shall we drink?' or 'What shall we wear?' 32For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. 33But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. 34Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own."

I don't know if your Bible is missing this? Or you just don't trust its author? Notice Jesus said, "O you of little faith."

And by the way, it sounds like God took care of you as you grew up. God never promised us that we would grow up in the "Trump lifestyle." Also note that His promise is directed to His disciples. Not everyone.

 

You're using the verses out of context.
It says not to waste your time fretting about tomorrow's problems, as there's enough problems in one day to think about! It is saying the way of the pagans is to waste time being nervous. "Will my clothes impress? Will I have all that I want? What if something bad happens tomorrow?"
Where believers will spend their time in praise and in taking care of our duties today.
It does NOT say that tomorrow takes care of itself for you if you're a believer. It says that you have enough to take care of today and that it's a waste of time to worry about tomorrow instead!

 

mareese,
What you say is not wrong, however, the point I am trying to make is in verse 30: "If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you, O you of little faith?"

I have never said that we were to do nothing for tomorrow, or to do nothing today. My point is that God gives us everything! Everything that I have is a gift from God. My house, my wife, my job, my life, my children. Everything. And God promises to take care of His children. He usually takes care of them through other people, such as their parents, the church, etc.

Some questions that I have are: How much is enough? Someone said that having too many kids was a waste of God's resources (improper stewardship or whatever), then how much money is required to raise one child? Not an easy question to answer...it depends! Where you live...health of the child....standard of living....culture....

The topic of this thread was contraception. My comments were that most people have selfish motives for using such devices or practices.

Another question: Does anyone have any scripture references to support the use of contraceptives?

 

Jim,

Isn't the truth of this, that these are not the children of "full quiver" Christians, but the children of drug addicts or alcoholics?

Liz

 

Not possible these days, assuming one lives in a country where children are routinely killed before birth, unless one has a VAST amount of money.

 

I'm thankful and glad that both Jim and Diane are following the Lord with their lives and serving him.

You don't need to take my comments personally. The truth is, most Christians have adopted the world's thinking regarding money, children, and families.

As for me personally. I left a six figure income to enter the ministry. But God has always provided.

The whole mindset about who "makes" babies, as if my wife and I decided how many we would have without God's sustaining, creating power is misguided.

God makes babies (Ps. 139). Babies are gifts from God and IMO not something we decide to have or not have. Now, we have enough technology to try to increase or limit our families. But that technology existed in the first century. Potions exsisted to prevent conception and induce abortions.

The problem with birth control is not necessarily its use (barrier methods, timing/abstaining), but the attitude it fosters (the idea that making babies is sinful because there are poor kids in the world, wanted/unwanted, negative feelings upon becoming pregnant, etc.).

 

I have no problem with the use of contraceptives and/or abstaining. I had a vasectomy so that my wife would not longer have to take birth control pills.

 

Amen, Brother KenH -- Preach it!

You are pro-life (not to be confused with
pro-birth).

 

Liz, I wish that were the answer, but sadly many of these children are just the victims of minimum wage incomes and more mouths than the parent or parents can feed. Rent alone takes most of their income.

In Canada, we have a better benefits program, but I fear a lack of prioritizing expenditures; must by the "winning" lotto tickets, play winning bingo, and not forgetting the beer and fags.

Cheers,

Jim

 

Just wanted to verify I have these children with MY Jim who is a member but posts very seldom, and not with the other Jim's on the board. LOL

 

Where do you see a promise to us that God will take care of us? The only thing I've seen God promise to us personally is the gift of life.

What is selfishness? Webster's defines it with words such as avarice, and as an undue desire for one's own comforts AT THE EXPENSE OF OTHERS. In my opinion, it is selfish to have an unlimited amount of children without the means of providing for them and at the risk of becoming dependent on others for your needs.
If you have only one child and waste your time and money on vices rather than using your gifts to help those in need, you are not wrong because you didn't have more children, you're wrong because you're being greedy and not showing the Spirit of Christ.
I'm going to shock a few people with the revelation that it is not selfish to not have a desire for 5 more children, neither is it selfish to say "I have enough children and do not desire more, now let me go and buy a decent house for my family". To be able to do so is a blessing, not an act of selfishness unless you know in your heart that God wants you to have five more children and doesn't want you to have a decent place to live or a reliable vehicle.

I've already answered the question of how much is enough, but I'll do it again.
Enough would be food, shelter, clothing, and access to medical care. Better would be food, better shelter, clothing, and access to better medical care.
Best would be food, a nice shelter, clothing, access to medical care for major problems, and money for further education.
I agree that as a whole we go too far in what we consider needs. It's almost a crime now to be too poor to have cable access or fancy hair stylists. On the other hand, I've seen families whose children have black teeth and no access to medical care, no boots in the winter, and struggle just to be worn out hand me downs that don't keep them warm because they don't want to limit their "blessings".

I don't have any scripture references about contraceptives either way. I did find an interesting page on the internet concerning it. While it is a tasteful page, it does go into some slight detail as is unavoidable in such a topic so I will pm you the link rather than post it openly where youngsters may view it without parental guidance.

 

It is all about faith. I'm sure glad that Noah is not posting on here. Some of ya'll will say that he is not using his brain & common sense about building some massive boat when it has never rained before! Or maybe Jonah, who ya'll would encourage to run to Tarshish or maybe it would be better just to play it safe and stay home! Or maybe Moses... Or maybe David... Or maybe Paul... etc... Many have the same kind of reasoning with this as they do evolution. "Well scientists say..." Yes I know what scientists say about overpopulation (I used to teach it)...but do you ever think they could be wrong? The Bible never has to change or correct itself because it is perfect and true in any day and age! Science is always changing!

And the righteous shall live by faith!

I agree with Paul33...it is the attitude or the motives behind your actions. Our faith produces our actions. If we trust God, then it will show.

Mareese,
I still believe those scriptures in Matthew 6 refer to our trusting God to provide for our needs: "31So do not worry, saying, 'What shall we eat?' or 'What shall we drink?' or 'What shall we wear?' 32For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. 33But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well."

 

Jim, is a fag a cigarette? Here it's a slang term for a gay person.
I tried to look it up online and all I get are porn links and such. I'd rather not wade through them.

 

FAGGOT - a male homosexual
FAGOT - a bundle of sticks for burning,
FAG - short for faggot; short for fagot especially meaning a cigarette

However, the phrase "the beer and fags"
then 'fags' probably means a package of
cigarettes.

Don't we learn all kinds of good stuff in
this topic