Contradiction or adultry?

It was exactly what the Apostle taught, and yes, he is a tower of strength when it comes to singleminded obedience to the commands of Scriptures.

 

Saved people sin.

IMO - and that's all it is - we are supposed to love the sinner - hate the sin. Your father probably knows how you feel, but sometime, in private, in love, you could share your feelings.

However, I would not disown him or continue to bring it up. It's his situation and all you can do is pray and love. God will bless you for honoring your father.

I believe divorce is wrong, but I have friends who were divorced and remarried. Sometimes, there are awkward moments in conversations, but they know how I believe and they know I love them regardless.

 

Think of it this way. Your father abandons your mother and is simply living with another woman. He's bringing his girlfriend to church, and all family activities. What would your response be? To lovingly accept their situation? What of the victim in this situation, your mother? How would you counsel her? Her children? What would the Apostle advise?

In Christ's eyes a man who divorces his wife for unjust causes and marries another is doing the same thing. It only looks different to us, because Christendom has by and large accepted divorce and remarriage. But from the beginning, this has never been acceptable in God's sight.

 

Not in the Baptist churches where I've been a member. At two different churches the deacons wanted me removed as the song leader because of being divorced. They weren't at all forgiving.

 

Aaron, I need to disagree. You are using a hypothetical situation that may not even be similar to reality here.

Benz didn't say anything like this was occuring. In fact, she said her father and his wife are godly - would suggest they are not behaving in this manner.

Refusing to condemn and/or punish the father does not mean there is not love or support for the mother. Why do so many Christians see everything as an either/or situation? :BangHead: Benz can share a Biblical view of divorce and pledge support of the mother AND show love to her father.

He’d want to know all the facts first. Then he would say to go confront that person in love.

Christ said it was sin and He died for sin so He could forgive sin. Even sins of Christians.

All sin is unacceptable. However, when is the last time we kicked someone out of our families for gossiping? Gluttony? Christians do treat certain sins differently - some sins are not allowed GRACE - and then "they" call it righteous. . .

Let me clarify a couple things. I do not condone divorce. Outside the grounds Christ gave, and then only because He recognized the hardness of hearts, I don't believe in divorce. I am also not against CHURCH discipline.

Benz, you stated:

Like I mentioned in my previous post, unless your father has not been in a good church, he most likely knows that divorce is a sin. Personally, I believe that the act of divorce is sin without Biblical grounds. Then the act of remarriage could be considered another sin. However, it is not for us to point out to others every time they sin. (When would we live?) Once you talk to him about your feelings, you have done your part. The Holy Spirit has to do the convicting. Your father and his wife have to deal with the situation. And personally, I believe leaving his current wife would be another sin.

You had to read that verse for you. You need to understand God's view of divorce as it applies to you. And so you can counsel those who seek your counsel.

God didn't make this hard - sinners made this hard. God created a perfect relationship with Adam and Eve. They sinned and we have to face that sad reality.

I have a sister who is divorced and living with a man AND they have a child together. She knows I do not support her behavior. She knows I call her life sinful. She knows our relationship is not like the relationship I have with other siblings. She knows I will tell her what I think if she brings it up. But I am the sibling to whom she reaches out. Don't you think my opinion and advice holds more weight than that of "Christians" who have shunned her? Who do you think will be more likely to lead her back to a right relationship with Christ? Who will her children listen to? This does not mean we have close fellowship. I am not out chasing her among the pigs. It means I am waiting in the road, watching for her.

Your parents’ divorce isn’t your responsibility, nor is it your responsibility to try to correct the situation. My family has a long history of divisiveness. Also, my father passed away when I was a teen. I have to deal with life without my father and I have to deal with the ramifications of all the divisions in my family – some created by bitterness hidden behind “tough love” and self-righteousness.

You do not have to forsake your father for him to miss out on the blessings of a right relationship with your mother. Even though he has remarried, he has to live with being responsible for the pain caused by divorcing your mother.

My DHs sister was divorced not too long ago. He sat down with her and told her he wasn’t exactly sure how to pray for her since she didn’t have Biblical grounds for divorce. But we have not cut her off. She is aware that her relationship with us changed, and that we didn’t approve. But who are we to hold it against her for the rest of her life? She has to answer to God for her decisions – we don’t answer to God for her. We answer to God for speaking the truth, in love, and loving her inspite of her faults.

What if she were fat as a result of gluttony? Should we disown her if she doesn’t stop over-eating? Should we point it out to her every time we see her with food? She would have to deal with the sin and the physical consequences herself. Could we encourage her and help her? Yes, if she asked for it. What kind of influence would we have on her if we punished her for her problems?

Dealing with divorced parents is very hard. Your parents were united physically, emotionally, and spiritually as a picture of our relationship with God. They broke that union – they broke the model and have to deal with all the consequences – physically, emotionally, and spiritually. Unfortunately, the consequences of sins flow over onto everyone close. I am praying that God gives you love and comfort for your mother. And I pray that God allows you to see your father the way He sees him. My belief is that God sees him as a wayward son who has to deal personally with his sinfulness and seek forgiveness and restitution. Don’t stand between God and your father throwing stones. I can’t see how that would help the situation.

All this is my opinion. God bless. raying:

 

Let me say, I am sorry your friend had to go through such a painful situation. I am glad I do not have that in my past - I am sure it would have had a huge toll on my whole person.

However, I Cor. 5 is dealing with the church, not the home. The situation was that the church was publicly proud of the fornicators and showing them honor instead of confronting the sin.

In your friend's situation it was up to the church to discipline the father. The son should have shared the Biblical principles, and his personal feelings with the father, and let the HS work. The son did not have to allow the father to be a spiritual influence or treat him the same as he treated his mother, but where is the example in Scripture of the son judging and condemning the father?

If the church disciplined the father and the father rebelled, the son should have supported the decision of the church and been in agreement that the father not have fellowship at church. The consequences would naturally carry over into their personal relationship, but the act of separation would have been performed according to Scripture.

Someone very close to me has acted in "tough love" a number of times. I can say that there was very little love and a lot of self-righteousness and martyr-like attention-seeking.

Who knows and judges the heart and true motives of your friend but God. I only hope he doesn't have to live with guilt and regrets. And it is possible that your friend has grown spiritually in spite of his actions.

 

Christ's sacrifice covers all sin - past, present and future. However, in order to have a close relationship with Him, we have to ask forgiveness and accept His forgiveness and attempt to make restitution where possible. And we have to live with the consequences of our actions. But in the event that the divorce was not based on biblical grounds, it is a sin - a blood-covered, Christ-forgiven sin - with all the ramifications of . . . SIN.

Just my beliefs. :type:

 

But Bro. Bob, if you look at the situation in light of the picture of the prodigal son - Being a "Jones" is not just a name - it is a God-created bond. If Jones, Jr. didn't do or listen to what Jones, Sr. wanted --- Jr. was no longer a "Jones." ? That's not what the story taught.

NO. Just means Junior didn't have a right relationship until he repented and asked forgiveness. He was never disowned by the father. Just as we are not disowned by the Father when we stray. The prodigal son still had to live with the consequences of his actions - he had used up his inheritance, there were issues with his brother, he had past sins that would cause guilt, etc.

Having the blood applied doesn't give us permission to go out and sin. Salvation is our spiritual bond to God. Then when we go out and sin, we are dishonoring the Blood and will have to suffer consequences for sin - consequences that will exist even if or after we have repented.

IMO. :type:

 

if you have to stop sinning before you can be saved than your salvation is based on works.

After you get saved, God will convict you of your individual, specific sins and help you overcome them........but it is not part of the eternal salvation of your soul....it is part of the process of restoring your fellowship with God.

many of us have been trying to point out your logical fallacy in this area for quite some time. I hope you get it figured out soon...........

 

And no one could ever be saved! :godisgood:

 

absolutely! good point! :godisgood:

 

Benz's question was, are his father and the other woman in adultery or not? The answer is yes with one caveat, that he was the victim of marital infidelity.

You obviously have never been a victim of infidelity, but my question was, what is the proper response? In the case of my friend, which you're confusing with Benz's case, there was no marital infidelity. There were difficulties, but his father chose the easy way out.

Now, what is the proper response? Again, there is no difference between my "hypothetical" situation, and what some people are doing under the guise of marriage. That's how one must think of it to respond properly. If a man calls himself a Christian, and refuses to abandon an adulterous relationship, the proper response is to break off fellowship.

That's not the issue. The issue is the proper response to one who continues in adultery despite all the "loving" admonitions.

Not all sins are prosecutable, but the failure of the church body to act does not relieve the responsibility of the individual.

This advice is wrong and unbiblical. No doubt you're to be respectful when you confront it, but to say it isn't your responsibility is a copout.

No one is interested in opinion here. The only helpful thing in a situation like this is a solid biblical response.

 

I could not disagree with you more. It is not my responsibility to change the way others behave - with the exception of my children and my students. And even then, I can only hope to change their heart while I change their behavior. I can tell them what the Bible says, but the HS has to do the convicting and the other person has to make the decision to change. Your "proper response" is devoid of love and grace. It is a good thing Christ does not treat us the way you advocate treating a divorced/remarried parent. A major problem in churches today is that there are people who feel it is their place in life to point out and change every sin they see in the people around them rather than seek the HSs guidance to change THEMSELVES.

I think I clearly purported that the Scripture your friend used to advocate disowning his father was used out of context. The Scripture mentioned was in reference to dealing with sin IN THE CHURCH. That is what "fellowship" is speaking of. Like I stated, the breaking of fellowship at church would undoubtedly spill over into the personal, home life. I don't see where the prodigal son's father ever disowned him as he left home.

For you to consider a divorced person who has remarried to be continuing in adultery, you have to see into the heart of another person. That is not something any person is capable of doing. How do you know if that person has asked for forgiveness and is now living under GRACE?

True, I have never had to personally deal with infidelity within my marriage or my parents' marriage. Praise God. However, I do have a sister who has stayed with her DH inspite of his having had an affair. This affair set things in motion that led to the accidental death of their 12 year old daughter. I have held my sister through many hours of pain I can never fathom. And yet, she listened to God and forgave him and they are still married and working on their marriage every day.

As for not wanting opinions on this board, that is a joke. At least 50% of what I read in any given thread is opinion thrown out as fact - many times backed up with a verse, even. Including what you wrote in this thread.

Some of what I wrote was my opinion. By stating it was my opinion, I was attempting to leave room for Benz to seek the guidance of the HS - the ONLY One who can truly lead in this issue omnisciently.