Contrasting The Csb with the Niv 2011

[Martin Marprelate]

I will list some verses from both the NIV and CSB.

Numbers 23:19a
CSB : God is not a man, that he might lie, or a son of man, that he might change his mind.
NIV : God is not human, that he should lie, not a human being, that he should change his mind.

The term 'son of man' here just means a person --not God.

Psalm 146:3
CSB : Do not trust in nobles, in a son of man, who cannot save.
NIV : Do not put your trust in princes, in human beings, who cannot save.

The CSB renders it as son of man. And it clearly means a human being.

Isaiah 51:12
CSB : Who are you that you should fear humans who die, or a son of man who is given up like grass.
NIV : Who are you that you fear mere mortals, human beings who are but grass.

Need I repeat that the term son of man is referencing people not Jesus?

The wording of the CSB is a bit awkward "given up like grass."

I like the NLT wording: So why are you afraid of mere humans, who wither like the grass and disappear?

Psalm 144:3
CSB : Lord, what is a human that you care for him, a son of man that you think of him?
It has a footnote saying :Or a mere mortal.
NIV : Lord, what are human beings that you care for them, mere mortals that you think of them?


That verse should remind you of Psalm 8:4. Yes, it is speaking of people --not Jesus. Psalm 8:4 and Psalm 144:3
speak of human beings --not Jesus. Don't get hung up on the term 'son of God' -- don't think it applies to Jesus every time.

The point here is that the Hebrew says, "Son of Man" so why not translate it "Son of Man"?
The term does very often mean simply 'man,' but there is a clear and well-known reference to the Lord Jesus Christ in Daniel 7:13, to which the Lord Jesus refers in Mark 14:62 etc. The context usually decides whether there is a messianic reference to 'Son of man' but it is not for the NIV translators to decide on behalf of the reader whether or not he will be allowed to find Christ in the Bible.

There are plenty of other problems with the new NIV. I was not much of a fan of the old one, but the new one is unquestionably worse, and if people want a dynamic equivalence Bible, I think they will do better with the CSV. Better than either, of course, would be to rely on the NKJV, ESV or NASB, which are much more accurate.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Your evasions are at an historic level. You are the essence of bogus.

How dare you quote my post #17 and not deal with any of its content. You throw mud constantly and then run to hills when told to back up your evil accusations.

Man up and back up your absurd charges. Give proof by way of quoting verses that demonstrate that the NIV promotes women as heads of households. Give proof that the NIV promotes women as apostles. Give proof that the NIV promotes women as elders and pastors. Give proof that the NIV obscures gender distinctions. Give proof that the "NIV seems to want equal roles for male/female." (6/23/17)

You can't just make wild assertions and have people believe you. Your track record of fibs is a long and shameful one.

You remind me of Dr. Ford. She just threw out a ton of lies about Judge K. and thought that was enough. Proof? Not a smidgeon. You also are a false accuser.

You are incapable of owning up to your barrage of evil charges lasting the past eight full years.

As TC said of you on 7/18/17 : "Apparently he is just blowing smoke --throwing out accusations that he is unwilling to defend or prove."

In the real world, at least the Christian one, people either demonstrate the truthfulness of their claims or own up to their sin.

How would you like it if someone lied about your wife -- just made up wicked things just to tarnish her reputation? The attacker just spouts off with nothing to back up his evil designs. Well, you are the guy who has done the same kind of thing. And it is serious. You have constantly demeaned the NIV and its translators. Hundreds of times I have challenged you to back up your assertions with proof. Show from the text of the NIV that it does what you claim. Your lack of doing so is evidence of your continual falsehood. Any other person would either never make his face seen again or admit that he just makes things up and doesn't know how to stop.

YOU don't know how to stop. You have no off button. Falsehoods just flood from your pores. And you show no shame.

Another thing. In any forum you shy away from quoting Scripture. But it's especially true in this particular forum. It's virtually impossible for most of us to discuss Bible translations without offering specifics --actual verses from translations. But you are totally unique --you are not in the habit of doing that. Strange.

I challenge you to cite verses from the NIV --not just their references. Prove that your assertions are reinforced with facts. Is that impossible for you? I'm afraid it is. You can't do it. It's too comfortable for you to lob mud on the wall. You don't think of owning up to your responsibilities. Is that kind of conduct honorable? Is that showing a good testimony? No the very antithesis of that.

Rippon, you need to control yourself. You are becoming apoplectic, not to mention, very unpleasant.

 

[Rippon]

I was not much of a fan of the old one, but the new one is unquestionably worse,

You are a silly boy at times MM. You have noted from time to time how the 2011 edition certainly made improvements over the 1984 version.

and if people want a dynamic equivalence Bible, I think they will do better with the CSV.

Do you mean the CSB, or are you confused?

Better than either, of course, would be to rely on the NKJV, ESV or NASB, which are much more accurate.

That's your opinion and you are entitled to have it.

 

[Rippon]

Rippon, you need to control yourself. You are becoming apoplectic, not to mention, very unpleasant.

You are a riot.

Do you want to align yourself with someone who habitually fabricates?

 

[Rippon]

For the sake of comparison I will give some snips from a few references in Proverbs.

1:10
NIV : if sinful men
CSB : if sinners
1:18
NIV : Those men
CSB : they
2:12
NIV : ways of wicked men
CSB : the way of evil
11:16
NIV : ruthless men
CSB : violent people
23:28
NIV : men
CSB : people
25:6
NIV : great men
CSB : the great
____________________________________________________
I don't have a problem with three of the CSB's renderings. But I do think "men" is more appropriate in the other three
passages.

I haven't checked, but I think the 2011 edition may have reverted to the 84 edition for those verses.

 

[Rippon]

Brother Martin understood me well!

It takes one to know one.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

I was not much of a fan of the old [NIV], but the new one is unquestionably worse,

You are a silly boy at times MM. You have noted from time to time how the 2011 edition certainly made improvements over the 1984 version.

I speak as I find. There are certainly a few improvements in the 2011 NIV over the 1984, but overall the 1984 version is better for reasons I have given elsewhere.

That's your opinion and you are entitled to have it.

It's extremely kind of you to say so, but I wasn't aware that I needed your permission to hold an opinion.

 

[JonC]

No, rather its due to the Csb translating per those Colorado Springs Guidelines, while the Niv chose not to do that!

I doubt it. They already have many translations that meet those guidelines. It was about money.

"Several widely-used translations already meet these guidelines, including the NIV, NASB, RSV, KJV, and NKJV."

 

[Rippon]

It's extremely kind of you to say so, but I wasn't aware that I needed your permission to hold an opinion.

Opinions are one thing, facts may be on an entirely different order.

I have no problem with those who think there are better translations than the NIV. I may ask why, but it is not offensive.

What IS offensive are bold-faced lies about the translation. When y1 makes his dirty accusations for instance, he knows that he is going against Scripture.

He recklessly asserts that the NIV blurs gender distinctions, and claims that it advocates women as apostles, elders and pastors. That is not in the arena of opinion whatsoever.

In the words of TCassidy to another on 7/12/18 :"When you make such a claim the burden of proof is on you. You have two options. #1 Support the claim with evidence. #2 Withdraw the claim."

The trouble is, Y1 has not withdrawn his many false and demeaning claims. He continues along with no compunction to tell the truth.

Pinpointing passages that buttress his case is something he avoids like the plague. Besides, there isn't anything anywhere that supports his baseless assertions. But for him to finally confess that he was making things up and shows contrition --that's just not his style.

Somehow mods ignore the many lies made about the NIV. If anything a lot smaller in magnitude is said about the NKJV or ESV --guns are drawn. I remember Dr. Bob got on my case years ago when I said that the grammar of the ESV or NKJV was poor. But this is far worse -- year in and year out for 100 months he has repeated absolutely untrue charges against the NIV. If he was serious he would simply produce verses from the NIV that support his assertions. But no, he runs to the hills and simply will not commit himself to specifying where in the text of the NIV does it say these outrageous things. I am fed up with his un-Christian conduct. It has to stop.

So I hope you can discern the difference between opinions and facts/lies. One is allowed to dislike the NIV or NKJV for that matter. It's a matter of opinion. But for someone to fabricate stuff and get smug about it all, is beyond comprehension. He's content to throw mud and doesn't bother to show any evidence from the text itself.That is certainly not in the realm of opinion.

 

[Yeshua1]

Your evasions are at an historic level. You are the essence of bogus.

How dare you quote my post #17 and not deal with any of its content. You throw mud constantly and then run to hills when told to back up your evil accusations.

Man up and back up your absurd charges. Give proof by way of quoting verses that demonstrate that the NIV promotes women as heads of households. Give proof that the NIV promotes women as apostles. Give proof that the NIV promotes women as elders and pastors. Give proof that the NIV obscures gender distinctions. Give proof that the "NIV seems to want equal roles for male/female." (6/23/17)

You can't just make wild assertions and have people believe you. Your track record of fibs is a long and shameful one.

You remind me of Dr. Ford. She just threw out a ton of lies about Judge K. and thought that was enough. Proof? Not a smidgeon. You also are a false accuser.

You are incapable of owning up to your barrage of evil charges lasting the past eight full years.

As TC said of you on 7/18/17 : "Apparently he is just blowing smoke --throwing out accusations that he is unwilling to defend or prove."

In the real world, at least the Christian one, people either demonstrate the truthfulness of their claims or own up to their sin.

How would you like it if someone lied about your wife -- just made up wicked things just to tarnish her reputation? The attacker just spouts off with nothing to back up his evil designs. Well, you are the guy who has done the same kind of thing. And it is serious. You have constantly demeaned the NIV and its translators. Hundreds of times I have challenged you to back up your assertions with proof. Show from the text of the NIV that it does what you claim. Your lack of doing so is evidence of your continual falsehood. Any other person would either never make his face seen again or admit that he just makes things up and doesn't know how to stop.

YOU don't know how to stop. You have no off button. Falsehoods just flood from your pores. And you show no shame.

Another thing. In any forum you shy away from quoting Scripture. But it's especially true in this particular forum. It's virtually impossible for most of us to discuss Bible translations without offering specifics --actual verses from translations. But you are totally unique --you are not in the habit of doing that. Strange.

I challenge you to cite verses from the NIV --not just their references. Prove that your assertions are reinforced with facts. Is that impossible for you? I'm afraid it is. You can't do it. It's too comfortable for you to lob mud on the wall. You don't think of owning up to your responsibilities. Is that kind of conduct honorable? Is that showing a good testimony? No the very antithesis of that.

You are So biased towards the improper gender Inclusion use of the Niv 2011 that you would not accept any prrof that would support that is was tranlated as a means unto bringing forth a more Evangelical Feminist viewpoint in regards to the scriptures being apllied for us today!

 

[Yeshua1]

I doubt it. They already have many translations that meet those guidelines. It was about money.

"Several widely-used translations already meet these guidelines, including the NIV, NASB, RSV, KJV, and NKJV."

1984 Niv did, but the Niv 2011 did not!

 

[Yeshua1]

I speak as I find. There are certainly a few improvements in the 2011 NIV over the 1984, but overall the 1984 version is better for reasons I have given elsewhere.
It's extremely kind of you to say so, but I wasn't aware that I needed your permission to hold an opinion.

You have to have permission to think against the 2011 Niv!

 

[Rippon]

You are So biased towards the improper gender Inclusion use of the Niv 2011 that you would not accept any prrof that would support that is was tranlated as a means unto bringing forth a more Evangelical Feminist viewpoint in regards to the scriptures being apllied for us today!

You are the Fabricator- In-Chief. In other words you make things up. You make up evil charges toward the NIV and its translators and never quote from the text of the NIV to prove your insane allegations.

You have never shown any verses that support your false statements regarding the NIV. You have made a bunch of completely untrue remarks for ages. But I will still laser in on your bogus accusations that the NIV promotes a blurring of gender distinctives, women as heads of homes, women as apostles, women as elders and women as pastors. I am holding you accountable for your irresponsibility of continually spouting off those lies.

I want to see you quote verses from the NIV yourself that demonstrate those false assertions. That would be an impossibility. I have asked you hundreds of times to prove your position from the text of the NIV. You have never done so. Throwing mud is much easier for you than to back up your charges. In the non-Christian world what you have been doing would be considered terribly wrong. But you profess Christ and turn your back on Him by lying and never demonstrating that your claims are true. You are shameful.

I have quoted a bunch of verses from the NIV. These are important verses that deal with the roles of men and women. They teach the same doctrine as the ESV, NASB and other trustworthy Bible translations. All English versions of consequence share the very same doctrines pertaining to gender roles.

I have quoted these verses in full numerous times and you fell silent. You made no comment whatsoever. I wonder why? THE REASON FOR YOUR SILENCE IS THAT THE VERY WORDS OF THE NIV TEXT HAS CONDEMNED YOUR COMPLETELY FALSE CHARGES,

These are the references that put the lie to your words:

Eph.6:4; Col. 3:18, 21; Heb. 12:7,9 ; 1 Tim. 2:11,12; 1 Cor. 11:3,7,8,9; 1 Peter 3:1, 5, and 7.

Surely if the NIV is guilty as you have charged, then those very verses should prove your contentions because they hinge on male and female roles. But Scripture is against your false words.

I will quote TCassidy again. This time from 5/16/ 06. He was dealing with another poster and a different topic. But his words perfectly fit your case.

"Lies seem to roll out of your mouth more often than the truth! Doesn't that bother you at all? Remember what the Bible says, 'out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.' If lies keep coming out of your mouth the bible says it is because your heart is full of lies."

 

[Yeshua1]

You are the Fabricator- In-Chief. In other words you make things up. You make up evil charges toward the NIV and its translators and never quote from the text of the NIV to prove your insane allegations.

You have never shown any verses that support your false statements regarding the NIV. You have made a bunch of completely untrue remarks for ages. But I will still laser in on your bogus accusations that the NIV promotes a blurring of gender distinctives, women as heads of homes, women as apostles, women as elders and women as pastors. I am holding you accountable for your irresponsibility of continually spouting off those lies.

I want to see you quote verses from the NIV yourself that demonstrate those false assertions. That would be an impossibility. I have asked you hundreds of times to prove your position from the text of the NIV. You have never done so. Throwing mud is much easier for you than to back up your charges. In the non-Christian world what you have been doing would be considered terribly wrong. But you profess Christ and turn your back on Him by lying and never demonstrating that your claims are true. You are shameful.

I have quoted a bunch of verses from the NIV. These are important verses that deal with the roles of men and women. They teach the same doctrine as the ESV, NASB and other trustworthy Bible translations. All English versions of consequence share the very same doctrines pertaining to gender roles.

I have quoted these verses in full numerous times and you fell silent. You made no comment whatsoever. I wonder why? THE REASON FOR YOUR SILENCE IS THAT THE VERY WORDS OF THE NIV TEXT HAS CONDEMNED YOUR COMPLETELY FALSE CHARGES,

These are the references that put the lie to your words:

Eph.6:4; Col. 3:18, 21; Heb. 12:7,9 ; 1 Tim. 2:11,12; 1 Cor. 11:3,7,8,9; 1 Peter 3:1, 5, and 7.

Surely if the NIV is guilty as you have charged, then those very verses should prove your contentions because they hinge on male and female roles. But Scripture is against your false words.

I will quote TCassidy again. This time from 5/16/ 06. He was dealing with another poster and a different topic. But his words perfectly fit your case.

"Lies seem to roll out of your mouth more often than the truth! Doesn't that bother you at all? Remember what the Bible says, 'out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.' If lies keep coming out of your mouth the bible says it is because your heart is full of lies."

Do you not see thatboth the Csb and the Niv translate inclusive kanguage wise, but the Csb followed guidelines and was acceptable to the SBC, and the Niv did follow them, and so was not acceptable?

 

[Rippon]

I cited 14 references in the text of the NIV which puts the lie to your ever continuing baseless claims.

You need to show verses in the NIV text that demonstrate your works of fiction. You can't do it because your contentions have been false from the get go. There are no passages from the NIV text that shows any of the absurd and evil claims you have made.

Christians are to tell the truth and not practice deception. You are guilty. You can confess and repent or be stubborn in your opposition to truthfulness.

 

[Yeshua1]

I cited 14 references in the text of the NIV which puts the lie to your ever continuing baseless claims.

You need to show verses in the NIV text that demonstrate your works of fiction. You can't do it because your contentions have been false from the get go. There are no passages from the NIV text that shows any of the absurd and evil claims you have made.

Christians are to tell the truth and not practice deception. You are guilty. You can confess and repent or be stubborn in your opposition to truthfulness.

Martin already listed to us many instances where the Niv did a bad job, and yet you just ignore or belittle him on it!

 

[Rippon]

Martin already listed to us many instances where the Niv did a bad job, and yet you just ignore or belittle him on it!

Listen Mr. Dense. The issue revolves around your false claims that the NIV promotes a blurring of gender distinctives, women as apostles, elders and pastors. Of course each of those assertions are lies. The NIV has no support for any of those things. You know it, everyone knows it. But you have to admit that you have been as phony as a two dollar bill in promulgating such trash. You need to confess and repent. But your history on the BB indicates that you will be stubborn in your attacks on truth telling.

What you call 'feminist material" introduced in the NIV is a load of manure that sticks to you like glue.

How can the NIV Bible translation be charged with any of the junk you have dumped on it when it says that :women must be quiet in the church? The CSB has a weaker --remain quiet. How do your false narratives square with actual passages in the NIV?

Men are elders and pastors in the NIV --not women. Why say such untrue things continually? It shows your contempt for truthfulness. You have to change your ways. Is there no place for truth in your life?

 

[JonC]

1984 Niv did, but the Niv 2011 did not!

Could the SBC use the 1984 NIV, the ESV, or the NASB? In other words, what was so wrong with existing translations that necessitated the creation of the CSV?

 

[Martin Marprelate]

What you call 'feminist material" introduced in the NIV is a load of manure that sticks to you like glue.

This would be unseemly language to use even if the accusation were true. However, Y1 is not the only one who sees feminism in the 2011 NIV. This from the council on Biblical manhood and Womanhood that Y1 linked on the other thread. It took me less than a minute to find.

1. The 2011 NIV adopts feminist-leaning translations in several key verses dealing with women’s role in the church.

I think an apology-- or rather, several apologies-- are due to Y1 for your bullying tactics and appalling rudeness.

 

[Jerome]

Could the SBC use the 1984 NIV, the ESV, or the NASB? In other words, what was so wrong with existing translations that necessitated the creation of the CSV?

Mohler explained back in 2002 that it's about CONTROL:

Baptist Press - Mohler: TNIV controversy makes HCSB translation even more important

"Mohler, president of Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, addressed the issue of Bible translation June 10 during a breakfast sponsored by LifeWay Christian Resources for pastors attending the Southern Baptist Convention. LifeWay's trade publishing division, Broadman & Holman, is publishing a new translation, the Holman Christian Standard Bible."

"this is an important thing for Southern Baptists to do -- if for no other reason than that we will have a major translation we can control."

"some 100 evangelical leaders, including Mohler, have voiced their opposition to [the TNIV], saying its attempt at 'gender-accuracy' has led to mistranslation of various biblical texts....Translators, Mohler said, face the temptation to use gender-inclusive language. 'There are many persons who are uttering feminist-originated arguments who do not consider themselves feminist, but they have bought into the worldview'....Mohler said there are other pressures -- including pressures from those pushing political correctness....The language is being contorted so fast, he added, that in five to 10 years some will be arguing for the removal of words such as 'marriage' and 'family' from the Bible."