Convicted Killer suffers During Execution....

[Gina B]

You know the essence of being Christ's Ambassadors here on this earth in the flesh demands that we respond with the spiritual to what everyone else responds to in the flesh.

So yes, sinful man has a price to be paid in the flesh. But it is incumbent for the CHRISTIAN to respond in the SPIRIT as Christ would.

Which is why Zacchaeus, convicted by the Spirit in the flesh, physically gave back four times what he cheated people out of.

 

[plain_n_simple]

Jesus was blamed for murdering Debra Dietz and her father, Eugene Dietz.

Jesus was put to death for murdering Debra and Eugene Dietz.

Jesus paid Joe Wood's penalty for murdering Debra and Eugene Dietz, whether Joe believed or not.

If you believe that the execution of Joseph Rudolph Wood III for murdering
Debra Dietz and Eugene Dietz was justified, called for, or endorsed by God and the bible

you are double minded

 

[righteousdude2]

Huh?

Jesus was blamed for murdering Debra Dietz and her father, Eugene Dietz.

Jesus was put to death for murdering Debra and Eugene Dietz.

Jesus paid Joe Wood's penalty for murdering Debra and Eugene Dietz, whether Joe believed or not.

If you believe that the execution of Joseph Rudolph Wood III for murdering
Debra Dietz and Eugene Dietz was justified, called for, or endorsed by God and the bible

you are double minded

Please explain yourself .... this makes absolutely no sense to me! Thanks!!!!

 

[plain_n_simple]

God is no longer directing us to judge, but to love. God has a day set, but it is when this world is done. To say that executions are required for payment mock's what Jesus did on the cross. It is not a believers job to condemn.

 

[righteousdude2]

Ok ....

God is no longer directing us to judge, but to love. God has a day set, but it is when this world is done. To say that executions are required for payment mock's what Jesus did on the cross. It is not a believers job to condemn.

I can accept that .... I don't believe this to be the case, but I respect your opinion! GBU!

 

[Don]

God is no longer directing us to judge, but to love. God has a day set, but it is when this world is done. To say that executions are required for payment mock's what Jesus did on the cross. It is not a believers job to condemn.

Was Joseph Rudolph Wood III saved?

 

[plain_n_simple]

Doesn't matter. Jesus still paid the price. On judgement day it will matter to Joe Wood. But our attitude here and now cannot be mixed with the Law.

 

[Don]

Doesn't matter. Jesus still paid the price. On judgement day it will matter to Joe Wood. But our attitude here and now cannot be mixed with the Law.

Does matter. You're saying that Christians should forgive him because Christ paid the price for his sins; but that price only works if he gains heaven. That forgiveness only extends to those who believe.

Now consider: You're espousing that we should be Christ-like; but on judgment day, how many people are going to be told by Christ "I never knew you" and cast into eternal hell?

I know that some would say that He's God, and He's allowed and has the right; but don't talk to me about being Christ-like if you refuse to support the government's execution of its powers.

If you don't like the death penalty, then work to change it.

Oh, that's right; that would mean working through the secular legal/political system, which we should not be a part of....

 

[plain_n_simple]

Christ paid for all sin, one time for all time, whether a person accepts it or not. Otherwise condemning a person here on earth you tread under foot what Christ died for, as if is was not enough to satisfy God's requirement. You bless and curse out of the same mouth.

 

[padredurand]

Doesn't matter. Jesus still paid the price. On judgement day it will matter to Joe Wood. But our attitude here and now cannot be mixed with the Law.

Paul would disagree with you.

Acts 25:10-11 NAS77
10 But Paul said, "I am standing before Caesar's tribunal, where I ought to be tried. I have done no wrong to the Jews, as you also very well know.
11 "If then I am a wrongdoer, and have committed anything worthy of death, I do not refuse to die; but if none of those things is true of which these men accuse me, no one can hand me over to them. I appeal to Caesar."

Paul submitted himself to the civil authorities by standing before Festus in Caesar's court.

• He clearly states, "Where I ought to be tried." validating the standing of the civil court even if he believed the government it represented to be wicked and contrary to God's Word.
• If then I am a wrongdoer: through due process
• and have committed anything worthy of death: Now if there was to be a strong case made for opposing capital punishment -after the Cross - this is where we should find it. Paul was student of the Law and never shy about speaking his mind. There is no better opportunity than in Festus' court to speak of the New Covenant purchased with blood, Paul does not say anything opposing capital punishment. He says quite the opposite
• I do not refuse to die: If after due process I am found guilty of committing a capital crime I will accept capital punishment.

You guys keep saying, "The Cross changed all that." but haven't shown one shred of evidence to support your case. It's easy to keep repeating yourself and saying I have a weak view of the Cross. Do some digging. Because I said so is no defense.

 

[Rolfe]

God is no longer directing us to judge, but to love. God has a day set, but it is when this world is done. To say that executions are required for payment mock's what Jesus did on the cross. It is not a believers job to condemn.

Do you believe this about all forms of criminal punishment?

 

[plain_n_simple]

Out of context, suited for your point, and a deceptive way to handle the Holy Word.

For those who are in Christ, there is no more condemnation for themselves, and they no longer condemn others. We no longer judge according to flesh, but spirit. Judgement by spirit ALWAYS gives grace in any situation. We are preaching the Gospel of Jesus, not Moses. You have put new wine in an old skin. You make Christ of no effect. Mixing the law(cold stones) with Jesus(hot fire) you have made yourself lukewarm. You speak exactly and react exactly like the world does in these important issues. The constitution is held up higher than God's word. It is not a Christian principal to condemn, but to save.

 

[Don]

Out of context, suited for your point, and a deceptive way to handle the Holy Word.

For those who are in Christ, there is no more condemnation for themselves, and they no longer condemn others. We no longer judge according to flesh, but spirit. Judgement by spirit ALWAYS gives grace in any situation. We are preaching the Gospel of Jesus, not Moses. You have put new wine in an old skin. You make Christ of no effect. Mixing the law(cold stones) with Jesus(hot fire) you have made yourself lukewarm. You speak exactly and react exactly like the world does in these important issues. The constitution is held up higher than God's word. It is not a Christian principal to condemn, but to save.

Out of context yourself.

You speak of spiritual things; the things discussed here are of the physical world. We do not judge the spiritual condition, but the physical actions and the need to protect society from further physical harm.

You've been given scripture, but reject it, stating it is out of context but not explaining how or why.

Jesus will take no pleasure or joy in sending unbelievers to hell; but He will do so anyway. We take no pleasure or joy in executing the laws of the rulers; but do so out of obedience.

 

[padredurand]

Out of context, suited for your point, and a deceptive way to handle the Holy Word.

For those who are in Christ, there is no more condemnation for themselves, and they no longer condemn others. We no longer judge according to flesh, but spirit. Judgement by spirit ALWAYS gives grace in any situation. We are preaching the Gospel of Jesus, not Moses. You have put new wine in an old skin. You make Christ of no effect. Mixing the law(cold stones) with Jesus(hot fire) you have made yourself lukewarm. You speak exactly and react exactly like the world does in these important issues. The constitution is held up higher than God's word. It is not a Christian principal to condemn, but to save.

Get that off your chest? How about some facts to go along with your opinion.

 

[plain_n_simple]

You condemn and call it righteous to do so, but Paul calls it a ministry of death. Not only have you eaten the leaven of the Pharasees, but Herod's leaven also, and call it good. Why post scripture when you cannot accept what Jesus said to the crowd? There is your example of handling crime. Grace, not Law.

 

[Don]

You condemn and call it righteous to do so, but Paul calls it a ministry of death. Not only have you eaten the leaven of the Pharasees, but Herod's leaven also, and call it good. Why post scripture when you cannot accept what Jesus said to the crowd? There is your example of handling crime. Grace, not Law.

Specific scriptural references, please. Paul calls what specifically a ministry of death? And I think what you're calling Jesus addressing crime was most likely the adulteress; and thus, you're using that WAY out of context.

 

[padredurand]

You condemn and call it righteous to do so, but Paul calls it a ministry of death. Not only have you eaten the leaven of the Pharasees, but Herod's leaven also, and call it good. Why post scripture when you cannot accept what Jesus said to the crowd? There is your example of handling crime. Grace, not Law.

Can you accept what He said to Pilate?

John 19:10-11 KJV
10 Then saith Pilate unto him, Speakest thou not unto me? knowest thou not that I have power to crucify thee, and have power to release thee?
11 Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.


Pilate made two statements to Jesus: he had authority as a civil magistrate and this authority included the right to judge and carry out a sentence of death. Jesus responded to these statements but didn't say Pilate was in error in regard to either of them. Instead, Jesus concedes the accuracy of Pilate's claim with the statement that this authority was given to Pilate by God. If capital punishment was evil, it seems strange that Jesus didn't rebut Pilate. Why would Jesus affirm Pilate's authority to be the voice of civil government and carry out a death sentence if the Lord knew this was not now His Father's will?

Pilate was acting as an agent of a Gentile government. What was legislated in the law of Moses was not peculiar to the Jews but is based upon an eternal principle applicable to all nations for all times.

 

[Zaac]

Does matter. You're saying that Christians should forgive him because Christ paid the price for his sins; but that price only works if he gains heaven.

The price was paid REGARDLESS of him or anyone else gaining heaven. If I buy you some new shoes and set them at your front door and everyday you come out and just look at them but never use them, it doesn't change the fact that I STILL paid for the shoes.

That forgiveness only extends to those who believe.

You're still thinking with the "physical" mind. The work of Jesus Christ is DONE! FINISHED! COMPLETE! TELESTAI!:thumbs:

His forgiveness is extended to every person who HAS sinned, who IS sinning, and who WILL sin.

Now consider: You're espousing that we should be Christ-like; but on judgment day, how many people are going to be told by Christ "I never knew you" and cast into eternal hell?

So on this Christian board or in church, we should not expect to see a display of the love of Christ from people because some of the folks don't know Christ?

I know that some would say that He's God, and He's allowed and has the right; but don't talk to me about being Christ-like if you refuse to support the government's execution of its powers.

If you don't like the death penalty, then work to change it.

Oh, that's right; that would mean working through the secular legal/political system, which we should not be a part of....

Do you support the government's execution of its powers when it comes to abortion? Prayer to Jesus or anything of Christ in schools or the public square? Same-Sex marriage? Divorce?

They've been given the right from God to decide to do these things and He allows the government to sanction these things.

That doesn't mean that the Body of Christ should be running around applauding what they are doing and coming up with "better" ways for them to do it.

The behavior again is 100% political and has nothing to do with Christ and His love.

Folks have been riding two trains when it comes to government executing its powers. They give the thumbs up for the stuff they politically agree with and then malign the government for everything else.

 

[Zaac]

Do you believe this about all forms of criminal punishment?

God allows man to do as he wants. Nobody has said that there aren't or shouldn't be consequences. But when it comes to taking a life, it's as sinful as is divorce.

Jesus Christ is about LIFE. The enemy is about death.

 

[Zaac]

Paul would disagree with you.

Acts 25:10-11 NAS77
10 But Paul said, "I am standing before Caesar's tribunal, where I ought to be tried. I have done no wrong to the Jews, as you also very well know.
11 "If then I am a wrongdoer, and have committed anything worthy of death, I do not refuse to die; but if none of those things is true of which these men accuse me, no one can hand me over to them. I appeal to Caesar."

Paul submitted himself to the civil authorities by standing before Festus in Caesar's court.

• He clearly states, "Where I ought to be tried." validating the standing of the civil court even if he believed the government it represented to be wicked and contrary to God's Word.
• If then I am a wrongdoer: through due process
• and have committed anything worthy of death: Now if there was to be a strong case made for opposing capital punishment -after the Cross - this is where we should find it. Paul was student of the Law and never shy about speaking his mind. There is no better opportunity than in Festus' court to speak of the New Covenant purchased with blood, Paul does not say anything opposing capital punishment. He says quite the opposite
• I do not refuse to die: If after due process I am found guilty of committing a capital crime I will accept capital punishment.

You guys keep saying, "The Cross changed all that." but haven't shown one shred of evidence to support your case. It's easy to keep repeating yourself and saying I have a weak view of the Cross. Do some digging. Because I said so is no defense.

I think you're confused about what I've said. Nobody said that the civil courts and authorities do not have the "standing" to do what they do. They have the "standing" to civilly okay same-sex marriage and divorce too just as they have the standing to arrest me if I rob a bank.

Having the "standing" doesn't make it righteous. Have the "standing" doesn't make it of God.

And in fulfilling the Law on the Cross, He presented a picture to every Christian of why we should be about His love and His mercy.

And frankly, it's just real easy to tell with folks on here what has evolved out of politics and what has evolved out of a love for Christ.

And this Christian support of capital punishment is based in politics.