Convicted Killer suffers During Execution....

[Zaac]

Out of context, suited for your point, and a deceptive way to handle the Holy Word.

For those who are in Christ, there is no more condemnation for themselves, and they no longer condemn others. We no longer judge according to flesh, but spirit. Judgement by spirit ALWAYS gives grace in any situation. We are preaching the Gospel of Jesus, not Moses. You have put new wine in an old skin. You make Christ of no effect. Mixing the law(cold stones) with Jesus(hot fire) you have made yourself lukewarm. You speak exactly and react exactly like the world does in these important issues. The constitution is held up higher than God's word. It is not a Christian principal to condemn, but to save.

AMEN!!! :applause::applause::applause:

 

[Zaac]

Get that off your chest? How about some facts to go along with your opinion.

You keep asking for facts. But you keep ignoring The CROSS.

That's the only fact you should need. If you don't understand why the completed work of Jesus Christ on The Cross should have every Christian yelling from the rafters "Come to Jesus and LIVE", then something is wrong and it's extremely wrong within the CHURCH.

What of the Gospel of Jesus Christ extols the taking of a life? How has the Church of Jesus Christ grown so cold as to IGNORE, when it concerns the life of their neighbor, the ultimate grace and mercy that Jesus extended to us for our lives on The Cross?

As you judge, so shall you also be judged. Will everyone who refuses to show mercy not be shown mercy? Which in turn should lead us to wonder exactly who is/is not TRULY a follower of Christ?

My goodness man. Why are you ignoring The Cross?

 

[padredurand]

You keep asking for facts. But you keep ignoring The CROSS.

That's the only fact you should need. If you don't understand why the completed work of Jesus Christ on The Cross should have every Christian yelling from the rafters "Come to Jesus and LIVE", then something is wrong and it's extremely wrong within the CHURCH.

What of the Gospel of Jesus Christ extols the taking of a life? How has the Church of Jesus Christ grown so cold as to IGNORE, when it concerns the life of their neighbor, the ultimate grace and mercy that Jesus extended to us for our lives on The Cross?

As you judge, so shall you also be judged. Will everyone who refuses to show mercy not be shown mercy? Which in turn should lead us to wonder exactly who is/is not TRULY a follower of Christ?

My goodness man. Why are you ignoring The Cross?

I'm not ignoring the Cross. A murderer under the penalty of death for his crime can still be saved if led by the Holy Spirit to respond to the Gospel. If I maliciously took the life of another I would fully expect my mortal life to be forfeited. My eternal state is beyond the bounds of civil authority. We are not redeemed by civil law any more than we could be redeemed by Moses'.

 

[Zaac]

I'm not ignoring the Cross. A murderer under the penalty of death for his crime can still be saved if led by the Holy Spirit to respond to the Gospel. If I maliciously took the life of another I would fully expect my mortal life to be forfeited.

I'm not asking what you would "expect". The Cross wasn't about what we expect.

My eternal state is beyond the bounds of civil authority.

Who said otherwise? Your eternal state should have you responding eternally minded.

We are not redeemed by civil law any more than we could be redeemed by Moses'.

Nobody is asking for civil redemption. But the Body of Christ needs to act like Christ and not like the world. I hear a lot from Christians complaining about abortion and the culture of death perpetrated upon us by the government. But some kind of way, we manage to give the thumbs up to the culture of death manifested by the government using capital punishment?

There is NOTHING of the love and mercy of the Cross in that.

Jesus came so that we may have LIFE and have it more abundantly. He didn't go to the Cross and extend the ultimate act of love and mercy to us for us to turn around and radiate the feelings of the world, and not show the same love and mercy to our neighbors that He showed us.

REMEMBER THE CROSS!

Jesus took the cross, the method of capital punishment, and transformed it into The Cross, the method of salvation. It is not coincidental that in the face of His own capital punishment that HE showed us that His way is one of love, grace and mercy.

Just as unrighteous as it was for them to use capital punishment to take the life of Jesus is it unrighteous for us to be okay with using it to take the life of another.

 

[padredurand]

I'm not asking what you would "expect". The Cross wasn't about what we expect.



Who said otherwise? Your eternal state should have you responding eternally minded.



Nobody is asking for civil redemption. But the Body of Christ needs to act like Christ and not like the world. I hear a lot from Christians complaining about abortion and the culture of death perpetrated upon us by the government. But some kind of way, we manage to give the thumbs up to the culture of death manifested by the government using capital punishment?

There is NOTHING of the love and mercy of the Cross in that.

Jesus came so that we may have LIFE and have it more abundantly. He didn't go to the Cross and extend the ultimate act of love and mercy to us for us to turn around and radiate the feelings of the world, and not show the same love and mercy to our neighbors that He showed us.

REMEMBER THE CROSS!

Jesus took the cross, the method of capital punishment, and transformed it into The Cross, the method of salvation. It is not coincidental that in the face of His own capital punishment that HE showed us that His way is one of love, grace and mercy.

Just as unrighteous as it was for them to use capital punishment to take the life of Jesus is it unrighteous for us to be okay with using it to take the life of another.

So I need to be like Thomas Jefferson and take a razor blade to my Bible separating it between the Testaments? Let me ask you this. How do we determine that murder, in this age, to be morally repugnant or is it no longer?

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

I'm not asking what you would "expect". The Cross wasn't about what we expect.

Excellent retort. Unfortunately is filled with emotion and totally lacks reason. Perhaps you could tell us what you believe the Cross was about?

Who said otherwise? Your eternal state should have you responding eternally minded.

Can you refute that God authorized the death penalty? In Genesis, God told Noah that the penalty for intentional murder should be death:

Genesis 9, NASB
6 "Whoever sheds man's blood,
By man his blood shall be shed,
For in the image of God He made man."​

That is before the Law was given to Moses, so you cannot argue that it is "no longer applicable in light of the cross." In the New Testament, the Apostle Paul instructs Christians that the government is not to be feared if good behavior is our life experience.

Romans 13
3(b) ... Do you want to have no fear of authority? Do what is good and you will have praise from the same;
4 for it is a minister of God to you for good. But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for it does not bear the sword for nothing; for it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath on the one who practices evil. ​

Christian thinking about the death penalty must begin with the fact that the Bible envisions a society in which capital punishment for murder is sometimes necessary, but should be exceedingly rare. The Bible also affirms that the death penalty, rightly and justly applied, will have a powerful deterrent effect. If you can argue with any of this, feel free to do so.

Nobody is asking for civil redemption. But the Body of Christ needs to act like Christ and not like the world.

Clearly, in the case of the death penalty, it is the world reflecting God's will. But feel free to argue with that, also.

I hear a lot from Christians complaining about abortion and the culture of death perpetrated upon us by the government.

There is a difference, Zaac, that surely anyone can see. The death of the unborn child is the death of a total innocent. That is not the case in the circumstances surrounding these executions.

But some kind of way, we manage to give the thumbs up to the culture of death manifested by the government using capital punishment?

Yes. It is biblically ordained. However, as I've said throughout this post, feel free to argue with that. But make sure you use biblical evidence to support your arguments.

There is NOTHING of the love and mercy of the Cross in that.

There is judgment in that, however. No offense, but you often seem to ignore or forget that is also a major aspect of God's character. He has given earthly authority to governments, and they have seen fit to enact the death penalty.

On the other hand, the Bible has a high standard for evidence proving capital murder. The act of murder must be confirmed and corroborated by the eyewitness testimony of accusers (in the case of DNA evidence, my opinion is that it should be considered "eyewitness testimony"). Also, society must take every reasonable precaution to ensure that no one is punished unjustly. I don't believe any evidence exists that such "unjust punishment" has ever been carried out, despite the multiple online articles purporting to prove otherwise.

While the death penalty is allowed and even mandated in some cases, the Bible also reveals that not all who are guilty of murder and complicity in murder are executed. Consider the biblical accounts concerning Moses, David and Saul, later known as Paul.

Jesus came so that we may have LIFE and have it more abundantly. He didn't go to the Cross and extend the ultimate act of love and mercy to us for us to turn around and radiate the feelings of the world, and not show the same love and mercy to our neighbors that He showed us.

REMEMBER THE CROSS!

This is a very impassioned plea that totally misses the point, Zaac. What about ...

Matthew 10
39 "He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it." ​

We are all under the death penalty. Sin is death. Those who do not fall on Christ and the cross lose their lives twice -- their temporal life here, and their eternal life in heaven, though they will still live eternally in hell. Jesus' compassionate gift at the cross does not erase the earthly consequences of our sin, and if that sin includes blatant, premeditated murder, particularly of a heinous nature, even the Christian will face the ultimate penalty, and that penalty does not offend God.

 

[Don]

One thing we need to understand: the continued comparison to abortion is invalid.

The death penalty and subsequent execution is the result of an action performed by the accused; a trial where evidence and counter-arguments are presented; and a decision made by a jury and/or judge--all governmental entities.

The unborn baby is sentenced to death based on the actions of others, without a trial, without evidence or counter-arguments, without a judge or a jury--all because the unborn child is inconvenient.

It's a false comparison.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Has Zaac repented for adding to Christ's words yet ? I don't understand why y'all are even talking to him. He has no spiritual authority.

 

[Zaac]

So I need to be like Thomas Jefferson and take a razor blade to my Bible separating it between the Testaments?

You need to be like Jesus and take a razor blade between your spirit and the love of this world.

Let me ask you this. How do we determine that murder, in this age, to be morally repugnant or is it no longer?

Why would it be less morally repugnant than it was when Cain murdered Abel? You don't have to determine the immorality/morality of murder. Jesus has already done that.

Jesus was killed. Knowing the unrighteousness of the deed, what purpose would it ,other than to author confusion that IS NOT OF HIM, for Him to advocate the taking of the life of one unrighteous person by another unrighteous person?

 

[Bro. Curtis]

The world is on your side, Zaac.

 

[Zaac]

One thing we need to understand: the continued comparison to abortion is invalid.

One thing we need to understand is that trying to invalidate the taking of a life in abortion as different from the taking of a life in capital punishment is about nothing but POLITICS. There is NOTHING of Christ in such blatant hypocrisy.

The truth isn't invalidated just because it presents a problem for our politics.

The death penalty and subsequent execution is the result of an action performed by the accused; a trial where evidence and counter-arguments are presented; and a decision made by a jury and/or judge--all governmental entities.

The unborn baby is sentenced to death based on the actions of others, without a trial, without evidence or counter-arguments, without a judge or a jury--all because the unborn child is inconvenient.

Both death by abortion and death by capital punishment rest in the laws granted by governmental entities. That government unrighteously gives the okay to kill a baby just as it unrighteously gives the okay to take the life of the adult.

It's a false comparison.

It's a true comparison that you're just trying to explain away by politics.

 

[Don]

One thing I'd really, really like to hear from PNS and Zaac: So what do we do with the unrepentent murderers?

Lock them away for life? Making them a burden upon the society to which they are a threat? How is that Christ-like?

Do we make them work? Because scripture says if we don't work (contribute), we don't eat. But in order for them to work, they have to be supervised, still making them a burden upon the society to which they are a threat.

What's the "Christ-like" answer? What do we do with them?

 

[Zaac]

The world is on your side, Zaac.

You're the one agreeing with the world and killing individuals. Obviously you and the world are on the same page.:thumbsup:

 

[Zaac]

...

You're 13 pages too late. Skip to the Cross.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

You're 13 pages too late. Skip to the Cross.

Perhaps you can reference it so I don't have to go through (by my computer's count) five pages. Page count depends on your personal settings on posts displayed per page.

 

[Zaac]

One thing I'd really, really like to hear from PNS and Zaac: So what do we do with the unrepentent murderers?

What do you do with the unrepentant sinners in your home? In your church?

Lock them away for life? Making them a burden upon the society to which they are a threat? How is that Christ-like?

How is it Christ-like to use capital punishment to unrighteously take their lives in the same way that capital punishment was used to take the life of Christ?

You honestly think Christ presented this picture of capital punishment on the Cross to turn around and say hey "Christians, I want you, my people , to keep advocating capital punishment akin to what I was put through?"

Jesus Christ used His capital punishment on the Cross and showed us that MAN'S way is capital punishment. His Way is love, grace and mercy.

Do we make them work? Because scripture says if we don't work (contribute), we don't eat. But in order for them to work, they have to be supervised, still making them a burden upon the society to which they are a threat.

Are your unsaved children a burden upon you? Are the poor, the widowed, and the orphaned also a burden upon you and society?

Where in Scripture are you given the right to take somebody else's life to keep them from being a burden on you?

What's the "Christ-like" answer? What do we do with them?

Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ Matt. 22:37-39

It's not rocket science.

 

[Zaac]

Perhaps you can reference it so I don't have to go through (by my computer's count) five pages. Page count depends on your personal settings on posts displayed per page.

No need to reference it. If you skip right on to the foot of the Cross and look up and ask Jesus as HE hung there, why?, you'll understand why your post is much too late.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

You're the one agreeing with the world and killing individuals. Obviously you and the world are on the same page.:thumbsup:

The world agrees with you on the death penalty, Zaac. Be honest. It's a command, you know. Stop adding to Christ's words, and realize you can't serve both God and man. You will be much happier.

 

[padredurand]

You need to be like Jesus and take a razor blade between your spirit and the love of this world.

How did you determine I love the world more than Jesus? Because I don't agree with you?

Why would it be less morally repugnant than it was when Cain murdered Abel? You don't have to determine the immorality/morality of murder. Jesus has already done that.

I'm not asking how we draw the line between moral and immoral. I'm asking how do we understand where the line was drawn? You're saying the law in its entirety is abolished. Jesus said He came to do the will of the Father who sent Him. Jesus said nothing that invalidated the moral provisions of the Law which was the will of the Father when it was given.

Jesus was killed. Knowing the unrighteousness of the deed, what purpose would it ,other than to author confusion that IS NOT OF HIM, for Him to advocate the taking of the life of one unrighteous person by another unrighteous person?

Yet, He subjected Himself to the very law you find so unChrist-like and He acknowledged Pilate's authority to do so.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Yet, He subjected Himself to the very law you find so unChrist-like and He acknowledged Pilate's authority to do so.

Zaac is up to three big lies in this thread.