Convicted Killer suffers During Execution....

[Doubting Thomas]

Can you refute that God authorized the death penalty? In Genesis, God told Noah that the penalty for intentional murder should be death:

Genesis 9, NASB
​

6 "Whoever sheds man's blood,
By man his blood shall be shed,
For in the image of God He made man."
​

That is before the Law was given to Moses, so you cannot argue that it is "no longer applicable in light of the cross."

Thanks for pointing this out. The command to Noah and his offspring predated the Mosaic Law by hundreds of years, and we don't see this directive set aside in the NT when Jesus fulfilled the Mosaic Law.

In the New Testament, the Apostle Paul instructs Christians that the government is not to be feared if good behavior is our life experience.

Romans 13
​

3(b) ... Do you want to have no fear of authority? Do what is good and you will have praise from the same;
4 for it is a minister of God to you for good. But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for it does not bear the sword for nothing; for it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath on the one who practices evil.
​

Christian thinking about the death penalty must begin with the fact that the Bible envisions a society in which capital punishment for murder is sometimes necessary, but should be exceedingly rare. The Bible also affirms that the death penalty, rightly and justly applied, will have a powerful deterrent effect. If you can argue with any of this, feel free to do so.Clearly, in the case of the death penalty, it is the world reflecting God's will. But feel free to argue with that, also.There is a difference, Zaac, that surely anyone can see. The death of the unborn child is the death of a total innocent. That is not the case in the circumstances surrounding these executions.Yes. It is biblically ordained. However, as I've said throughout this post, feel free to argue with that. But make sure you use biblical evidence to support your arguments.There is judgment in that, however. No offense, but you often seem to ignore or forget that is also a major aspect of God's character. He has given earthly authority to governments, and they have seen fit to enact the death penalty.

Some more good points. The distinction needs to be maintained between the state's authority to execute the death penalty (temporally) and Christ dying to provide atonement and forgiveness of our sins (eternally). Just because there are those of us who point out this distinction and maintain the government still has the power to take the life of a murderer, this doesn't mean we are "watching with glee" when a murder is appropriately executed nor does it mean we don't pray for the reconciliation of his soul to God before his temporal demise.

 

[Don]

What do you do with the unrepentant sinners in your home? In your church?

How is it Christ-like to use capital punishment to unrighteously take their lives in the same way that capital punishment was used to take the life of Christ?

You honestly think Christ presented this picture of capital punishment on the Cross to turn around and say hey "Christians, I want you, my people , to keep advocating capital punishment akin to what I was put through?"

Jesus Christ used His capital punishment on the Cross and showed us that MAN'S way is capital punishment. His Way is love, grace and mercy.

Are your unsaved children a burden upon you? Are the poor, the widowed, and the orphaned also a burden upon you and society?

Where in Scripture are you given the right to take somebody else's life to keep them from being a burden on you?

Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ Matt. 22:37-39

It's not rocket science.

If I understood this "answer" correctly (technically, it's a non-answer), then Zaac is volunteering to keep the unrepentent murderers in his home.

 

[plain_n_simple]

"What do you do with the unrepentant sinners in your home? In your church?"
Love, forgiveness, grace, over and over and over and over and over and over and over, it's the goodness of God that brings repentance, not punishment

 

[Don]

One thing we need to understand is that trying to invalidate the taking of a life in abortion as different from the taking of a life in capital punishment is about nothing but POLITICS. There is NOTHING of Christ in such blatant hypocrisy.

The truth isn't invalidated just because it presents a problem for our politics.

Both death by abortion and death by capital punishment rest in the laws granted by governmental entities. That government unrighteously gives the okay to kill a baby just as it unrighteously gives the okay to take the life of the adult.

It's a true comparison that you're just trying to explain away by politics.

The comparison FAILS because you make no distinction between the cause for the sentence of death.

If the government (the rulers) are the designated sword-bearers established by God, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrong-doer, then your comparison FAILS because you have yet to show how abortion is the government acting as the sword-bearer to bring punishment upon the onborn baby.

 

[Don]

"What do you do with the unrepentant sinners in your home? In your church?"
Love, forgiveness, grace, over and over and over and over and over and over and over, it's the goodness of God that brings repentance, not punishment

It's a nice answer, and one that I fully agree with -- until that unrepentent sinner is a pedophile, or a murderer.

Then what do we do with them? Still keep them in our house?

 

[Zaac]

If I understood this "answer" correctly (technically, it's a non-answer), then Zaac is volunteering to keep the unrepentent murderers in his home.

You keep unrepentant sinners in your home. Why shouldn't I?

 

[Revmitchell]

"What do you do with the unrepentant sinners in your home? In your church?"
Love, forgiveness, grace, over and over and over and over and over and over and over, it's the goodness of God that brings repentance, not punishment

You did not get that from scripture. It is only when repentance is made that grace can be given.

Mat 18:15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
Mat 18:16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
Mat 18:17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

2 Thessalonians 3:14

And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed.

1 Corinthians 5:13

But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

 

[plain_n_simple]

It's a nice answer, and one that I fully agree with -- until that unrepentent sinner is a pedophile, or a murderer.

Then what do we do with them? Still keep them in our house?

You do not fully agree with that Don. you have conditions, and God's love is unconditional. You think it won't work because you have a stronghold of the way the world works. We are not in that kingdom. Let the worlds governments deal out what they wish. We preach life, not death.

 

[Zaac]

The comparison FAILS because you make no distinction between the cause for the sentence of death.

Man please. You don't get to dictate that taking a life isn't taking a life because of "the sentence". This stance is politically motivated. One thing that I've come to recognize on this board and throughout the evangelical church is that people will quickly forget the Cross when it comes to something that's politically motivated.

If the government (the rulers) are the designated sword-bearers established by God, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrong-doer, then your comparison FAILS because you have yet to show how abortion is the government acting as the sword-bearer to bring punishment upon the onborn baby.

Pure foolishness. you now think you get to decide that the taking of a life is only the taking of a life if it's in the capacity of being an agent of wrath. That's YOUR restriction in order to make your point work.

The taking of a life is the taking of a life and you don't get to redefine what it is by coming up with your own politically motivated reasoning for why the government okaying the taking of the life of an unborn baby is any different from the government okaying the taking of the life of an adult.

Your attempt to undo the comparison fails miserably.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

No need to reference it. If you skip right on to the foot of the Cross and look up and ask Jesus as HE hung there, why?, you'll understand why your post is much too late.

That's not an answer, it is an evasion. It does nothing to address the issues of God's justice, only His love. They are not mutually exclusive, as you seem to believe. His love doesn't cover over a multitude of sin relative to the temporal consequences -- only as to eternal life.

 

[Zaac]

It's a nice answer, and one that I fully agree with -- until that unrepentent sinner is a pedophile, or a murderer.

Then what do we do with them? Still keep them in our house?

I'll echo what someone else said earlier. Yall will be okay with the government taking someone's life until the government gets to the point that it decides that the penalty for YOUR trespasses should be your life.

The Cross was capital punishment. And capital punishment at the hands of unrighteous men was just as sinful then as it is today.

REMEMBER THE CROSS!

 

[Don]

I'll echo what someone else said earlier. Yall will be okay with the government taking someone's life until the government gets to the point that it decides that the penalty for YOUR trespasses should be your life.

The Cross was capital punishment. And capital punishment at the hands of unrighteous men was just as sinful then as it is today.

REMEMBER THE CROSS!

Non-answer.

 

[Don]

You do not fully agree with that Don. you have conditions, and God's love is unconditional. You think it won't work because you have a stronghold of the way the world works. We are not in that kingdom. Let the worlds governments deal out what they wish. We preach life, not death.

That didn't answer the question. Unless you're saying yes, keep the pedophiles and murderers in your house. Is that what you're saying?

 

[Zaac]

You do not fully agree with that Don. you have conditions, and God's love is unconditional. You think it won't work because you have a stronghold of the way the world works. We are not in that kingdom. Let the worlds governments deal out what they wish. We preach life, not death.

:applause::applause::applause:

 

[Don]

Man please. You don't get to dictate that taking a life isn't taking a life because of "the sentence". This stance is politically motivated. One thing that I've come to recognize on this board and throughout the evangelical church is that people will quickly forget the Cross when it comes to something that's politically motivated.

YOU don't get to dictate which scriptures you don't like.

Pure foolishness. you now think you get to decide that the taking of a life is only the taking of a life if it's in the capacity of being an agent of wrath. That's YOUR restriction in order to make your point work.

That's Romans 13, not me. Which, by the way, was written by Paul, an apostle of God, AFTER Christ's work on the cross. Take it up with God.

The taking of a life is the taking of a life and you don't get to redefine what it is by coming up with your own politically motivated reasoning for why the government okaying the taking of the life of an unborn baby is any different from the government okaying the taking of the life of an adult.

Your attempt to undo the comparison fails miserably.

I'm not attempting to "undo a comparison." You're attempting to force one.

The only point where the two compare is that it's the taking of a life. One is justified by scripture; the other is not.

 

[plain_n_simple]

"You did not get that from scripture. It is only when repentance is made that grace can be given."
It's absolutely script

God's goodness brings a man to repentance(and it does)
is the same as saying God's grace brings a man to repentance.

But you say man's repentance, brings on God's goodness

"Where sin increased, grace increased all the more"

does not say

"Where repentance of sin increased, grace increased all the more"

Man repents on his own, or he repents because of God's goodness

 

[Zaac]

Non-answer.

It was an answer. The Cross just isn't THE answer that folks who are bowing down to politics want to hear.

It's just easier to deal with things the way you want to instead of the way of Christ.

 

[Revmitchell]

"You did not get that from scripture. It is only when repentance is made that grace can be given."
It's absolutely script

God's goodness brings a man to repentance(and it does)
is the same as saying God's grace brings a man to repentance.

But you say man's repentance, brings on God's goodness

"Where sin increased, grace increased all the more"

does not say

"Where repentance of sin increased, grace increased all the more"

Man repents on his own, or he repents because of God's goodness

I see you skipped the passages I gave taking my post out of context and avoiding actual scripture of which you have none. Typical for charismatics.

 

[plain_n_simple]

That didn't answer the question. Unless you're saying yes, keep the pedophiles and murderers in your house. Is that what you're saying?

What would Jesus do? He is in you.

Would Jesus's spirit be so strong in you that a change would occur in these sinners lives that are in your house??

Would you call that "the gospel in word and power"?

Are you confident enough that you would trust Jesus and Him alone to protect your loved ones?

Is the spirit in you or is that just something we need to say without the walk?

This would be a good time to weigh how deep our personal relationship with Jesus really is, the one we love to tell sinners that they need, but somehow we show a stronger personal relationship with Moses.

 

[Zaac]

YOU don't get to dictate which scriptures you don't like.

I like them All.:thumbs:

That's Romans 13, not me. Which, by the way, was written by Paul, an apostle of God, AFTER Christ's work on the cross. Take it up with God.

I took it up with God. And He says to tell you that it was a haphazard attempt to use Scripture to help you try to justify the unjustifiable.

Taking a life is taking a life and you don't get to amend what it is by limiting the taking of a life to what you think it should be.

I'm not attempting to "undo a comparison." You're attempting to force one.

Sure you are. You don't want taking a life by way of abortion to be the same thing as taking a life through capital punishment because of YOUR conditions.

All it does is highlight how hypocritically silly it is for yall to parade around complaining about the government and abortion but then turning around and cheering the government's right to take a life with capital punishment.

The only point where the two compare is that it's the taking of a life. One is justified by scripture; the other is not.

One is shown to be ALLOWED. It is not justified. It's just as sinful as is the taking of the life by abortion and THAT's what you want to ignore.