Conviction of Sin or Depression

[ReformedBaptist]

Really?!? So why is there often a hereditary (not just immediate family) component. Why do antidepressants work?

People who are depressed are not just living without truth and they are NOT just feeling sorry for themselves. It is a disorder.

If you accept the psychological information a priori, what can I say to you? I begin with the Scripture. Jesus is sufficient. How terrible for the inhabitants of the earth prior to the advent of pshychology and psychotherapy. lol

 

[Amy.G]

There is a fountain fill'd with blood
Drawn from EMMANUEL's veins;
And sinners, plung'd beneath that flood,
Lose all their guilty stains.

This hymn was written by William Cowper (26 November 1731 – 25 April 1800) who suffered from severe depression for most of his life. He tried on several occasions to commit suicide. He was institutionalized for months at a time. Yet, he was a Godly man and loved the Lord, so I don't think his depression can be attributed to spiritual immaturity.

Depression is a disease and can be caused by many factors including chemical imbalance or even hormones. Anyone who has raised a teenager and seen them go from being a happy child to a terror with a hateful attitude knows this.

 

[menageriekeeper]

If you accept the psychological information a priori, what can I say to you? I begin with the Scripture. Jesus is sufficient. How terrible for the inhabitants of the earth prior to the advent of pshychology and psychotherapy. lol

RB, do you apply the same reasoning to other diseases that cause imbalances of the chemicals needed by the body to function correctly? You know, things like diabetes (ever see a child with diabetes go wild because his sugar was off the charts? I have), or thyroid disease (which can be a cause of depression)? How about someone suffering from a brain tumor whose personality is affected by the disease? Or do you only apply your reasoning to "mental disorders"?

If you do, then you need to show me the scripture that says our brains will never malfunction.

 

[webdog]

If you accept the psychological information a priori, what can I say to you? I begin with the Scripture. Jesus is sufficient. How terrible for the inhabitants of the earth prior to the advent of pshychology and psychotherapy. lol

RB, I thought you were smarter than that. Since you start with Scripture I"m sure you can supply the Scripture showing there is no such thing as chemical imbalances and faulty electrical signals in the brain. I think it's in 1 Opinions, so start there.

 

[SpiritualMadMan]

Wow, I am well acquainted with depression and conviction...

Warning... Jumping in with out readin all the intervening posts...

There are many flavors of depression. A sense of being "off". Listless, Unmotivated, Just want to sleep.

Conviction is different in that there is a conviction that I've done something wrong and it needs to be addressed.

(The difference between Conviction and Condemnation is that Condemnation is non-specific and doesn't give you anything to confess to God about. The Holy Spirit Convicts. satan condemns...)

Granted, pushing the Holy Spirit's conviction away can lead to depression and can open avenues of attack. Which can lead to suicidal depression.

Which is a sense of a total lack of self worth resulting in the thought that a person is not worth God's Love and shouldn't continue to clutter up the earth.

Never been that far gone, and can't comment on it. But, one thing's for sure that does *not* come from God.

Two very important items are getting enough rest...

And, agreeing quickly with your adversary when confronted with sin, especially if it's the Holy Spirir.

Lastly, trust that He *is* faithful and just to forgive us if we confess our sins.

Oh, yeah... One more thing I've learned is that my Father Loves me enough to discipline me, and He has a big enough 2x4 to get my attention no matter how "distracted" I am.

My God is a Jealous God, He fights for me!

Hope this helps a little.

 

[SpiritualMadMan]

Forgot an item of import. Our brains are very complex things. Physiologically we can be depressed. We can also be depressed because of the way we think. Psychological depression. These can and are often interconnected.

This is why, for me, adequate sleep is crucial. I don't think clearly when exhausted. And, my basically Melancholy temprament quickly gets me into trouble.

I have gotten far enough down the slope to have had to take meds for a short time to get back on balance. After which had big fight with doctor to quit them. As most do not understand the Spiritual side of Depression or the risk of "PharmaKia" on the believer.

 

[rbell]

Depression is simply a matter of "My life sucks, and I feel sorry for myself."

Jon pretty much hit the nail on the head. Depression is typically the absence of truth, while conviction is the application of it. I don't buy the chemical imbalance argument.

If you accept the psychological information a priori, what can I say to you? I begin with the Scripture. Jesus is sufficient. How terrible for the inhabitants of the earth prior to the advent of pshychology and psychotherapy. lol

Can depression be a symptom of spiritual issues? Of course. Are there people who are depressed that can purely address it through spiritual means? Yep. Can God heal anything, anytime, through any method He chooses? Absolutely. When we encounter someone who "seems down," should we diagnose them with depression, throw a pill at them, and pronounce them cured? Don't be silly; of course not.

Now...having said that, the quoted posts aboves show just how far some folks have to go in understanding issues that face many people.

I'm not sure either of you have much experience with folks that are dealing with real, clinical depression. If I'm wrong, and you do have experience, may God grant those whom you encounter the ability to be gracious in the face of your ignorant statements.

I'd feel sorry for folks you'd diagnose with epilepsy. "Buck up and quit acting so silly," you might say.

 

[jaigner]

I'd feel sorry for folks you'd diagnose with epilepsy. "Buck up and quit acting so silly," you might say.

We often disagree, but thank you for this very good rebuttal. This is something that I take quite personally after living with a dysthymic disorder since childhood and having an 8-month, full-blown, severe depressive episode.

It's a shame some Christians are so ignorant about mental disorders. Think of all the lives that have been adversely affected by misinformed and stubborn Christians, especially ministers.

Really bugs me.

 

[jaigner]

If you accept the psychological information a priori, what can I say to you? I begin with the Scripture. Jesus is sufficient. How terrible for the inhabitants of the earth prior to the advent of pshychology and psychotherapy. lol

This is an ignorant and completely misinformed statement, not to mention offensive and hurtful to people like me who have struggled with such issues. This is science, and not just speculation. Anti-depressants work. Healthy eating, sleeping and exercising can greatly affect the severity of symptoms. Heck, even sunlight helps.

You must be completely oblivious if you can't understand the spiritual damage that can be done to a person with depression by telling them "Jesus is sufficient," which implies "you must not be living right" or "you just need to trust God."

A person with severe depression often cannot pull himself out. I prayed, earnestly studied the Bible, was doing a theology degree, was involved in church ministry and it still happened to me almost overnight it seemed. I cried out in all the faith I could muster to be healed, relieved, or to be shown what needed to change.

God was there the whole time. He never left. But the frailty of my fallen flesh (not personal sin, not lack of trust) was a block. It was in my brain. Until I got help (and drugs, which are a huge gift from God) I couldn't do anything. After medical intervention, I was able to make the other necessary changes (diet, exercise, socializing, cognitive process) to get back on the road to recovery.

Would you say to the parents of an ADHD child that they needed to spank him or her more? If you do, they will still be hyperactive with a sore butt. It's the same thing.

Part of me would like all folks like you to have to live with depression for one day just to see what it's like. You'd never give me superficial "Jesus" answers again.

 

[Melanie]

Depression is simply a matter of "My life sucks, and I feel sorry for myself." That is nothing like a person (saved or lost) who is convicted of sin.

Dear me.....I hate the depression that besets me at times......it has nought to do with your simplistic and erroneous definition.It is a chemical thingy and it is a right pain in the neck.

 

[jaigner]

Dear me.....I hate the depression that besets me at times......it has nought to do with your simplistic and erroneous definition.It is a chemical thingy and it is a right pain in the neck.

Thank you.

I wish my depression was as easy as fixing a bad attitude, but it's not.

 

[Jedi Knight]

Depression is a chemical imbalance.

Been watching too many commercials for Zoloft? Scripture on the other hand says "Anxiety in the heart of man causes depression, But a good word makes it glad makes it glad." Proverbs 12:25 :flower: Too many trying to address spiritual problem through physical means.

 

[SpiritualMadMan]

It would be nice if all Depression was as easy to "fix" as quoting a Spiritual Bandaid!

But, it's not.

Granted there is a special grace granted to those that are called to be Sons of Consolation and Encouragers of Hearts.

If you are not called then the old adage of, "If you can't say something nice don't say anything at all", applies.

I didn't have to take any meds, ever, until I got caught up in that cultic Positive Confession thing that came through the Charismatics years ago.

Everyone was trying to correct my Confession and cutting me off before I could get to the conclusion of the matter. Which was, no matter how bad I feel, Jesus is still on the throne and He is faithful and just to finsih what He's begun in me.

Some of us, admittedly, take far too long to reach the conclusion of the matter. Get used to it! OR, stop praying for patience...

I know it can be very hard to be aroung those of us with either a Melancholy Tempraments or depression.

But, God has called us to love one another. And, to comfort and encourage one another NOT be Job's Comforters.

If it really is a sin issue... Deal with it directly and then Minister healing...

 

[Voice-n-Wilderness]

It might be that we all experience depression, some chronic and some fleeting.

I believe that my depressed moments are best addressed by prayer and action.
If I do not act then I will remain under the cloud.
If I act and follow my Saviour's leading, then I am not to judge myself for I am His servant.

My own surrender to serve the Lord came as a dissatisfaction with selfish goals.

 

[menageriekeeper]

My own surrender to serve the Lord came as a dissatisfaction with selfish goals.

And again, this is not depression. Dissatisfaction can be a trigger for depression or a symptom of depression, but it is only a piece of the puzzle. Like this:

You are building a house and halfway through something strikes you "wrong". You don't know just what it is but you are aren't satisfied, so you take out your floor plan and give it a good look over and then you see it: There is a wall in the way of your traffic flow. So you fix it and life goes on. That is dissatisfaction.

Depression is you need a house, your friends have provided several plans, but you can't muster the energy to figure out which plan would suit. You look at the first one and think, this is way to much work, to much money, to much effort and its easier to just sit. Then when your friend comes to help you with this chore, you get angry, because his presence means that you can't. Just can't and you are tired of I can't, but you truely CAN'T do anymore. And then when the anger leaves, because with anger comes a short burst of adrenlin laced energy, you are even more tired and flat than before your friends showed up. This is depression. It is not lazyness, sinfulness or stupidity. It is physically not being able to muster up the energy to be interested in anything. It is a struggle just to go from morning to night and a wish that you could just go to sleep forever. It is looking at your small children and wondering why God gave such happy, wonderful, creatures to a lazy, slug like you and even when you wish to do better, nothing is good enough in your own eyes to deserve the blessings you have.

Does this sound spiritual? Yes. Is it? No. It is a trick of a malfunctioning brain that is struggling to keep a body running and not doing a sufficient job.

 

[Voice-n-Wilderness]

Wow! Can't say I have ever had a touch of that. My wife is on an antidepressant. But she never describes it as thoroughly as you have. She on the otherhand has things that she clings to in her depressed state. She walks to the woods and sits with her hands digging in the dirt. She finds things and treasures them; things like an interesting root or a molesk shell. Never understood it but can see that I don't really understand depression. Thanks for sharing your experience of it.

 

[jaigner]

Been watching too many commercials for Zoloft? Scripture on the other hand says "Anxiety in the heart of man causes depression, But a good word makes it glad makes it glad." Proverbs 12:25 :flower: Too many trying to address spiritual problem through physical means.

You've obviously never suffered from clinical depression. It's a chemical imbalance, not a bad attitude or a lack of trust. It's science. There's a reason why we use pills. They WORK. They make it possible to begin a healing process.

What you said is incredibly offensive to anyone who has struggled with depression. Please try to be more sensitive in the future.

 

[billwald]

I took prozac for 2 or 3 years. After I got my pension I quit because it didn't seem to matter any longer (if I was nuts).

 

[menageriekeeper]

Wow! Can't say I have ever had a touch of that. My wife is on an antidepressant. But she never describes it as thoroughly as you have.

Possibly she hasn't learned to describe what she goes though like I do, because she hasn't had as many years of it as I have. I have more than 15 years of on and off depression and my mother was depressed all my life, which I'm 46 so that's a lot of living with a depressed person. Also, there is a genetic link in my mother's family and well over half of her brothers and sisters also suffered, though none as badly as my mother.

My mother was raised by Jedi Knight and RB's ancestors and was taught that she had a "spiritual" problem. I never bought into that idea. Pills can't fix spiritual and I could see the difference the meds made in her(the right meds, not the stuff she self medicated with). When I had my first episode, I had watched her struggle for many years already and was prepared and knew what to watch for and my husband knew what to watch for.

And everyone's depression is different. There are similarities, in general, but no one walks the exact same path down depression's road. If it soothes your wife to cling to some object, encourage her. You don't have to understand it, just do it. Why? Because when she can't accept love any other way, she'll accept it through your acceptances of her piccadillos. Depression is nasty, it gums up our love receptors. Some people can bypass that and it sounds like your wife is one of them.

 

[Jedi Knight]

You've obviously never suffered from clinical depression.

It's only clinical if you take it to the clinic. :type: