Rev. Joshua
<img src=/cjv.jpg>
My authority is the Bible. In Genesis 1:27, God creates humanity male and female in the image of God. I really didn't think this was a controversial topic.
Joshua
Joshua
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Cooperative Baptist Fellowship
- Thread starter bb_baptist
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I personally could care less how one prays to God with regard to gender language.
What is clear however, is that the Baptist Press is attempting to dig all the dirt it can find on CBF and is portraying the "Mother God" business in the light of occult worship. This way, it can make mainstream Baptists think that CBF is full of 'something weird' so they won't notice that the Pharisees are controlling the SBC.
What is clear however, is that the Baptist Press is attempting to dig all the dirt it can find on CBF and is portraying the "Mother God" business in the light of occult worship. This way, it can make mainstream Baptists think that CBF is full of 'something weird' so they won't notice that the Pharisees are controlling the SBC.
bob walker
New Member
GOD created ADAM MAN in HIS image and in his
likeness. not eve she was taken from adams side. by the way read Jeremiah about the blasphemy that Israel did by worshipping the "QUEEN OF HEAVEN" (Easter) was this a practise that God hated and allowed destruction for Israel over it
Jeremiah 7:18 Jeremiah 7 Jeremiah 7:17-19 The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger.
oh well do not let the Bible get in the way
the new age and witchs also follow this mess. in Christ bob walker
likeness. not eve she was taken from adams side. by the way read Jeremiah about the blasphemy that Israel did by worshipping the "QUEEN OF HEAVEN" (Easter) was this a practise that God hated and allowed destruction for Israel over it
Jeremiah 7:18 Jeremiah 7 Jeremiah 7:17-19 The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger.
oh well do not let the Bible get in the way
the new age and witchs also follow this mess. in Christ bob walker
Rev. Joshua
<img src=/cjv.jpg>
Bob, are you looking at the same Gen 1:27 I am?
bob walker
New Member
God created the souls of men and women.in genesis that you reference
Jesus said " OUR FATHER who art in heaven"
not mother goddess. let us make man in our
( father son and holy spirit) I john 5:7
image. witchs follow the mother goddess so
you have a choice of our father who art in heaven or the queen of heaven ???
as for me and my house we will serve the LORD
bob
Jesus said " OUR FATHER who art in heaven"
not mother goddess. let us make man in our
( father son and holy spirit) I john 5:7
image. witchs follow the mother goddess so
you have a choice of our father who art in heaven or the queen of heaven ???
as for me and my house we will serve the LORD
bob
Rev. Joshua
<img src=/cjv.jpg>
Bob,
I still don't think you get it. When Christians pray to God as their Mother they are not praying to the earth goddess of wicca or the other matriarchal, celtic religions. They are praying to the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob whose son is Jesus Christ. These are still Christian prayers in a Christian context.
It's been a while since I've looked at this, but you may want to look at Sallie McFague's Models of God if you're genuinely convinced that Christians cannot pray to God as Mother and Father.
I still don't think you get it. When Christians pray to God as their Mother they are not praying to the earth goddess of wicca or the other matriarchal, celtic religions. They are praying to the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob whose son is Jesus Christ. These are still Christian prayers in a Christian context.
It's been a while since I've looked at this, but you may want to look at Sallie McFague's Models of God if you're genuinely convinced that Christians cannot pray to God as Mother and Father.
Rev. Joshua
<img src=/cjv.jpg>
Jim,
Are you saying that you believe this discussion doesn't even have a place in responsible theological discussion? (To some extent, we agree on that, since I thought this was generally a settled issue among Christians.)
Joshua
Are you saying that you believe this discussion doesn't even have a place in responsible theological discussion? (To some extent, we agree on that, since I thought this was generally a settled issue among Christians.)
Joshua
Pennsylvania Jim
New Member
Yes, I guess that's what I'm saying. It is absolutely clear from scripture that God is of the masculine gender (for lack of a more dignified way to put it). To hold otherwise is to either have an authority outside of and in conflict with scripture, or to pretend to have scripture as your authority but to then sit in judgement of it with your own ideas.
I find it distressing when liberals claim to hold to the historic Christian faith instead of just coming out (as some do) and admitting that they have invented a new religion.
I find it distressing when liberals claim to hold to the historic Christian faith instead of just coming out (as some do) and admitting that they have invented a new religion.
Pennsylvania Jim
New Member
Anyway folks, I think it is clear from these discussions where the CBF will take you...better make sure that's where you want to go if you are hooked up with them!
[ August 09, 2001: Message edited by: Pennsylvania Jim ]
[ August 09, 2001: Message edited by: Pennsylvania Jim ]
Rev. Joshua
<img src=/cjv.jpg>
Jim, that's just plain insulting. Again, it's in the first chapter of Genesis. Humanity is created male and female in the image of God.
Have you bothered to read any of the wealth of Christian scholarship on this topic (I think McFague's book is a good starting point)? Recognizing that the almighty, eternal, holy, creator of the universe is not limited to a single gender is not creating another religion - particularly since Christians who do still view Christ as the perfect Son of God whose death is the atonement for our sins.
Just because there are Christians who don't see the world the way you do doesn't mean they aren't Christians.
Joshua
Have you bothered to read any of the wealth of Christian scholarship on this topic (I think McFague's book is a good starting point)? Recognizing that the almighty, eternal, holy, creator of the universe is not limited to a single gender is not creating another religion - particularly since Christians who do still view Christ as the perfect Son of God whose death is the atonement for our sins.
Just because there are Christians who don't see the world the way you do doesn't mean they aren't Christians.
Joshua
Pennsylvania Jim
New Member
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CJoshuaV:
particularly since Christians who do still view Christ as the perfect Son of God whose death is the atonement for our sins.
Joshua<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Joshua, could you please elaborate on exactly what you mean when you say that?
particularly since Christians who do still view Christ as the perfect Son of God whose death is the atonement for our sins.
Joshua<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Joshua, could you please elaborate on exactly what you mean when you say that?
Rev. Joshua
<img src=/cjv.jpg>
Sure.
Whether you pray to God as Mother, Father, both, or neither; if you believe that Jesus is God incarnate, and that he was crucified for our sins and resurrected by the miraculous power of God; you're a Christian.
Joshua
Whether you pray to God as Mother, Father, both, or neither; if you believe that Jesus is God incarnate, and that he was crucified for our sins and resurrected by the miraculous power of God; you're a Christian.
Joshua
Joseph_Botwinick
<img src=/532.jpg>Banned
Daniel Vestal wrote in his e-mail response to me: "one speaker referenced God as being like a father and mother (Isaiah 66:13)."
Here is what the verse says in context:
"For this is what the Lord says:
I will extend peace to her like a river,
and the wealth of nations like a flooding stream;
you will nurse and be carried on her arm
and dandled on her knees.
As a mother comforts her child,
so will I comfort you;
and you will be comforted over Jerusalem."
(vv. 12-13)
In context with this passage, and considering what was actually said, it doesn't sound as sensational and controversial as I am sure BP probably hoped it would be.
Joseph
Here is what the verse says in context:
"For this is what the Lord says:
I will extend peace to her like a river,
and the wealth of nations like a flooding stream;
you will nurse and be carried on her arm
and dandled on her knees.
As a mother comforts her child,
so will I comfort you;
and you will be comforted over Jerusalem."
(vv. 12-13)
In context with this passage, and considering what was actually said, it doesn't sound as sensational and controversial as I am sure BP probably hoped it would be.
Joseph
Rev. Joshua
<img src=/cjv.jpg>
Joseph,
I was at the breakfast and Daniel wasn't, and now I wish I had paid more attention. I will say that I knew most of those gathered personally (BWIM is still a small, family-like crowd) and, if no one there actually prayed aloud to God as "Mother," I don't think any of them would have minded. I took a class from Karen Massey, the new BWIM President, and she's the one who introduced me to McFague's book - and I know we prayed to God as Mother in that class.
Whether or not God was actually called "Mother" that Thursday (and darnit, I wish I remembered), people who have a problem with calling God "Mother" should understand that (in my experience) it is not a big deal within the CBF or her partner schools.
Joshua
I was at the breakfast and Daniel wasn't, and now I wish I had paid more attention. I will say that I knew most of those gathered personally (BWIM is still a small, family-like crowd) and, if no one there actually prayed aloud to God as "Mother," I don't think any of them would have minded. I took a class from Karen Massey, the new BWIM President, and she's the one who introduced me to McFague's book - and I know we prayed to God as Mother in that class.
Whether or not God was actually called "Mother" that Thursday (and darnit, I wish I remembered), people who have a problem with calling God "Mother" should understand that (in my experience) it is not a big deal within the CBF or her partner schools.
Joshua
Pennsylvania Jim
New Member
Joshua said: "Sure.
Whether you pray to God as Mother, Father, both, or neither; if you believe that Jesus is God incarnate, and that he was crucified for our sins and resurrected by the miraculous power of God; you're a Christian.
Joshua"
OK Good, I wanted to make sure we were speaking the same language on that one.
Gen 1:27 "So god created man in his own image, in the image of God created he heim. Male and Female created he them.
Gen 2:15 And the Lord god took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.
16 and the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
17 But of the tree of the know,ledge on good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day thou eatest thereor thou shalt surely die.
18. And the Lord God said, It is not good that the man should be ALONE; I will make an help meet for him.
...23. And Adam said, This is now bone of my bone, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, for she ws taken out of Man.
Matt. 28:19 Go ye therrefore , and teach all nations, baptising them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.
John 9:4 I must do the works of him that sent me...
John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son...
John 10:32 ...Many good works have I shewed you from my Father...
John 14:7 If you had know me ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. 8 Phillip saith unto him,, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us. 9 Jesus saith unto him...he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, show us the Father?
John 14:16 And I will pray the father, and he shall give you anothe Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever.
Etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.
[ August 10, 2001: Message edited by: Pennsylvania Jim ]
Whether you pray to God as Mother, Father, both, or neither; if you believe that Jesus is God incarnate, and that he was crucified for our sins and resurrected by the miraculous power of God; you're a Christian.
Joshua"
OK Good, I wanted to make sure we were speaking the same language on that one.
Gen 1:27 "So god created man in his own image, in the image of God created he heim. Male and Female created he them.
Gen 2:15 And the Lord god took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.
16 and the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
17 But of the tree of the know,ledge on good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day thou eatest thereor thou shalt surely die.
18. And the Lord God said, It is not good that the man should be ALONE; I will make an help meet for him.
...23. And Adam said, This is now bone of my bone, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, for she ws taken out of Man.
Matt. 28:19 Go ye therrefore , and teach all nations, baptising them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.
John 9:4 I must do the works of him that sent me...
John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son...
John 10:32 ...Many good works have I shewed you from my Father...
John 14:7 If you had know me ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. 8 Phillip saith unto him,, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us. 9 Jesus saith unto him...he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, show us the Father?
John 14:16 And I will pray the father, and he shall give you anothe Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever.
Etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.
[ August 10, 2001: Message edited by: Pennsylvania Jim ]
KeeperOfMyHome
New Member
Here is a link to an article from the BWIM web page. Saggy, now I know why you trash their publication when you get it! Ick!
http://baptistnet.com/bwim/godmaleart.html
If these women really have a problem calling God by his rightful name of Father, then, well, they have a real problem.
Though a few verses may compare Him to a mother hen, mother bear, or mother eagle, we should remember that Jesus never, ever referred to Him as God the Mother!
And if you remember correctly, when Mary conceived, she was overtaken by the Holy Spirit . . . I don't think it wise to call Jesus' Father mother.
http://baptistnet.com/bwim/godmaleart.html
If these women really have a problem calling God by his rightful name of Father, then, well, they have a real problem.
Though a few verses may compare Him to a mother hen, mother bear, or mother eagle, we should remember that Jesus never, ever referred to Him as God the Mother!
And if you remember correctly, when Mary conceived, she was overtaken by the Holy Spirit . . . I don't think it wise to call Jesus' Father mother.
Issue settles down the verbal (each word) plenary (fully) inspiration (God-breathed).
IF every Word in the Bible is God's perfectly crafted and chosen word . .
IF every gender is there because God wanted it there . .
IF even the most subtle nuance of language is important . .
Then to call God "the Father" as "mother" or replace the chosen and inspired pronoun "Him" and "His" with a gender neutral variant is 100% incorrect.
Always been suspect of the CBF and the doctrine of verbal plenary inspiration[/1]
IF
IF every Word in the Bible is God's perfectly crafted and chosen word . .
IF every gender is there because God wanted it there . .
IF even the most subtle nuance of language is important . .
Then to call God "the Father" as "mother" or replace the chosen and inspired pronoun "Him" and "His" with a gender neutral variant is 100% incorrect.
Always been suspect of the CBF and the doctrine of verbal plenary inspiration[/1]
IF
Rev. Joshua
<img src=/cjv.jpg>
To be honest, I don't know anyone in the CBF who believes in plenary inspiration. Then again, I don't know everyone in the CBF
.
Joshua
Joshua