Cops and Shooting of Suspects

[InTheLight]

OK, is the incidence of cops shooting people, black or white, armed or unarmed, actually increasing? Or is the proliferation of phone cameras, cops wearing body cameras, and dashboard mounted cameras making us aware of these incidences to a greater degree?

In other words are we hearing more about these cases because of increased transparency, or are there actually more of these cases?

I don't know the answer, but I hope it's because of transparency and not because cops are getting more trigger happy.

 

[Zaac]

OK, is the incidence of cops shooting people, black or white, armed or unarmed, actually increasing? Or is the proliferation of phone cameras, cops wearing body cameras, and dashboard mounted cameras making us aware of these incidences to a greater degree?

In other words are we hearing more about these cases because of increased transparency, or are there actually more of these cases?

I don't know the answer, but I hope it's because of transparency and not because cops are getting more trigger happy.

I think this has been going on for a long time and the cops have been getting away with it because they cover for one another, the prosecutors cover for them, and they all know what words to include in their reports to get a "justified" kill.

I don't know that the cops are getting more trigger happy. I think that Blacks have reached a boiling point with seeing unarmed black men shot dead and left laying in the streets and not even a charge gets pressed against the officers.

I think Blacks and Brown people are finally speaking up because they realize that this is the SAME type mass murder and genocide that took place ta the hands of white men during slavery and Jim Crow.

I think Black people are tired of hearing the US talk about ISIS and ISIL and human rights violations in the Middle East and throughout that region, while the very same folks trying to send us to war over there don't give a flying hoot about the human rights violations against Blacks in this country.

And they are finally fed up with it. PRAISE GOD.

 

[Use of Time]

Were you just paying me lip service earlier when I gave you advice and you said 'good point"? I know you are under no obligation to follow it or anything but I apparently failed to make my point as you have just driven on with the same stuff I already cautioned you about. We are talking about police violence in the modern era and there is plenty to discuss. I know you can contribute here and still get your point across. You will completely lose your audience by even trying to go back to Jim Crow and slavery. Why do you do this?

 

[Zaac]

Were you just paying me lip service earlier when I gave you advice and you said 'good point"?

Nope. You did make a good point.

I know you are under no obligation to follow it or anything but I apparently failed to make my point as you have just driven on with the same stuff I already cautioned you about. We are talking about police violence in the modern era and there is plenty to discuss. I know you can contribute here and still get your point across. You will completely lose your audience by even trying to go back to Jim Crow and slavery. Why do you do this?

Because it's relevant and it's the same thing that happened during those times. You're looking at the modern era. I'm looking at a continuation of the same old vein that just keeps changing forms.

I can't change anyone's heart. But I sure can make it known again and again that the wickedness that the church is allowing to breed is one in the same that was dealt with in the 1860s and again in the 1960s and right back again today.

ITL asked if the violence was on the uptick. It may be as I said. But I believe we're hearing about it more because Blacks are fed up with it being ignored.

We can talk about it and give links to stats. But nothing will change until folks are willing to acknowledge that there is nothing new under the sun, and that we are repeating the same ills of our forefathers.

Race issues are where they are in this country because white people don't want anyone to talk about race because then we have to get into the dirty past that nobody wants to admit their ancestors were participants in.

So yes, I see the big picture and it's all tied in together in the same woven strand of wickedness.

 

[Use of Time]

Nope. You did make a good point.



Because it's relevant and it's the same thing that happened during those times. You're looking at the modern era. I'm looking at a continuation of the same old vein that just keeps changing forms.

I can't change anyone's heart. But I sure can make it known again and again that the wickedness that the church is allowing to breed is one in the same that was dealt with in the 1860s and again in the 1960s and right back again today.

ITL asked if the violence was on the uptick. It may be as I said. But I believe we're hearing about it more because Blacks are fed up with it being ignored.

We can talk about it and give links to stats. But nothing will change until folks are willing to acknowledge that there is nothing new under the sun, and that we are repeating the same ills of our forefathers.

Race issues are where they are in this country because white people don't want anyone to talk about race because then we have to get into the dirty past that nobody wants to admit their ancestors were participants in.

So yes, I see the big picture and it's all tied in together in the same woven strand of wickedness.

But we have to go with the facts of each situation. You can't just barge into a one off situation and declare it racism every time a black person ends up on the wrong end a violent action. That way lies madness. Racism is one of those things that you know it when you see it. I don't think I've seen someone flat out deny Jim Crow or slavery. Yes, the insecure people here have tried to bring up black slave owners in a ridiculous comparison as an attempt to level out the blame and that is stupid I agree.

I think police training is about to come under more scrutiny and that probably wouldn't hurt but I think technology has brought these occurrences to the fore front of the national media. Camara phones and dash cams have contributed greatly to the visibility of these issues as of late so we can only speculate past eras and police violence as it would be nearly impossible to tabulate that data into a proper comparison.

 

[Zaac]

But we have to go with the facts of each situation. You can't just barge into a one off situation and declare it racism every time a black person ends up on the wrong end a violent action. That way lies madness. Racism is one of those things that you know it when you see it. I don't think I've seen someone flat out deny Jim Crow or slavery. Yes, the insecure people here have tried to bring up black slave owners in a ridiculous comparison as an attempt to level out the blame and that is stupid I agree.

But I haven't done that. Every time I've spoken of slavery and Jim Crow, I've spoken to the ignoring of what is going on by white Christians today being the same thing that went on back then.

It was ignored and people were burned, lynched and slaughtered. And white Christians looked the other way for a long time. The same thing is going on now.

I think police training is about to come under more scrutiny and that probably wouldn't hurt but I think technology has brought these occurrences to the fore front of the national media. Camara phones and dash cams have contributed greatly to the visibility of these issues as of late so we can only speculate past eras and police violence as it would be nearly impossible to tabulate that data into a proper comparison.

Perhaps the technology is helping in getting the white community and the world to take notice. But there were no videos with Trayvon Martin or Mike Brown or a lot of the others killed by the police.

The Black parents of these young men have just started calling in whomever they could to get some steam behind their losses.

They didn't start doing so because of videos, but because every other week, some community was burying another unarmed black family member.

 

[righteousdude2]

OK, is the incidence of cops shooting people, black or white, armed or unarmed, actually increasing? Or is the proliferation of phone cameras, cops wearing body cameras, and dashboard mounted cameras making us aware of these incidences to a greater degree?

In other words are we hearing more about these cases because of increased transparency, or are there actually more of these cases?

I don't know the answer, but I hope it's because of transparency and not because cops are getting more trigger happy.

You know me well, ITL, so when I tell you that you have a great point, don't have a heart attack and die on me! :smilewinkgrin:

I am under the belief that media and social media can be positive things in our life. However, in the case of portraying out of control cops, it is more as you tend to think, than actually a bunch of bad, angry, racist cops! There are many good things the police do that never make it to news or Facebook. People seem to live for negative news. Like one says (regarding the news media coverage), "If it bleeds .... it leads!"

 

[righteousdude2]

I know you can contribute here and still get your point across. You will completely lose your audience by even trying to go back to Jim Crow and slavery.

Great question! I hope you get an answer that is of the same caliber and quality! :thumbsup:

 

[Revmitchell]

I am seeing just as much reporting on this stuff as I have ever seen it. The difference is the race baiters who have come out of the wood work since Obama took office that are trying to capitalize on these reports for political gain has increased ten fold.

 

[poncho]

Man Dies After Cops Break His Neck, Sever His Spine, Bruise His Brain, Snap His Leg, And Crush His Larynx

http://www.prisonplanet.com/man-dies-after-cops-break-his-neck-sever-his-spine-bruise-his-brain-snap-his-leg-and-crush-his-larynx.html

It's not just a question of cops shooting people. Cops also beat people to death.

I do think we're seeing more of this because people have cell phone cameras now. That doesn't mean it's any less of an issue or that it hasn't been going on for a long time. I believe people who have been given authority over others consider themselves "exceptional" and above the law now. They no longer consider themselves "public servants" they now consider themselves "enforcers".

They stopped being "public servants" when they stopped referring to themselves as "peace officers" and started referring to themselves as "law enforcement officers". Now that they have been militarized and trained in military tactics their role as "protectors" no longer applies. Now they are "warriors". And what do "warriors" do? They fight wars.

For more SEE THIS and THIS.

Who are they at war with?

Our own role has changed from being citizens with rights to being suspects with no rights in the government's eye and in many cases the "public mind" itself so to has our role changed in the "enforcer's" eyes.

If we view government as a "mafia" which is entirely reasonable given that the government itself has been turned into a criminal enterprise then it's entirely reasonable to view the police force as it's "enforcers". How did the mafia enforcers force their will on and, for lack of better term "control" others? They used brutal tactics to induce a state of fear and intimidation.

Is this how we want to live our lives in fear of the "authorities" (formerly known as civil servants) like people do in third world dictatorial nations? More importantly, is this how we want our children and grand children to live?

The argument, if it can be called an argument that "the police do good things to" IMHO is just an attempt to downplay or overlook the problem. It's almost as if those who use this argument are using it as a balm to soothe their own minds and absolve themselves from any responsibility that might otherwise compel them to take action to "protect and defend" our "free society" and future generations from the encroaching militarized big brother police/surveillance state they themselves have encouraged as a result of their own fear of individual liberty and need to feel "safe" from overly hyped threats and a multitude of stage managed crisis.

 

[Zaac]

They stopped being "public servants" when they stopped referring to themselves as "peace officers" and started referring to themselves as "law enforcement officers". Now that they have been militarized and trained in military tactics their role as "protectors" no longer applies. Now they are "warriors". And what do "warriors" do? They fight wars.

.

I think this is key right here Poncho. This is exactly what I thought when I saw the guys in Ferguson coming out in the military gear.

So I wonder why there aren't many people asking for what reason could CONGRESS have for okaying the militarizing of police departments across this nation?

 

[Zaac]

I am seeing just as much reporting on this stuff as I have ever seen it. The difference is the race baiters who have come out of the wood work since Obama took office that are trying to capitalize on these reports for political gain has increased ten fold.

Typical white privilege response. He's upset that the people who are seeing folks who look like them killed everyday are upset. And he calls that race baiting. And because of his own racial prejudice, he wants to blame it on Obama. Hilarious.

 

[righteousdude2]

I think this is key right here Poncho. This is exactly what I thought when I saw the guys in Ferguson coming out in the military gear.

So I wonder why there are many people asking for what reason could CONGRESS have for okaying the militarizing of police departments across this nation?

Maybe you and I were watching different news feeds, but when you go to a protest that is going to turn into a riot, based on Watts, South LA to name a few, you don't show up as in parking meter gear.

Those protesters wanted to fight, and the cops wanted to keep the damages to property and lives to a minimum, which is why they showed up for the fight in proper attire. After all they want to go home at the end of the day, alive and injury free.

Those citizens CHOSE to mix it up, and they should not expect anything less from those keeping the peace (peace officers); LEO's (enforcers of our laws) and protectors, or as poncho says, "warriors!" Personally, I've been within eye sight of riots, and feel quiet safe with WARRIORS keeping the peace.

Again, those who decide to break laws and cause civil disturbance should NOT expect nothing less from our police force. Got it poncho? Police "force" means they act in force to keep the peace. Thank God for these men and women. And to make it clear, no pity for protesters turned rioters. :BangHead:

 

[Zaac]

Maybe you and I were watching different news feeds, but when you go to a protest that is going to turn into a riot, based on Watts, South LA to name a few, you don't show up as in parking meter gear.

we were watching the same thing.

Those protesters wanted to fight, and the cops wanted to keep the damages to property and lives to a minimum, which is why they showed up for the fight in proper attire. After all they want to go home at the end of the day, alive and injury free.

They showed up in military gear with military equipment to fight who? Another military? The entire United States populace should take issue with the militarizing of our local police departments.

They are NOT the military no matter how some in Congress want to position them as such.

Those citizens CHOSE to mix it up, and they should not expect anything less from those keeping the peace (peace officers); LEO's (enforcers of our laws) and protectors, or as poncho says, "warriors!" Personally, I've been within eye sight of riots, and feel quiet safe with WARRIORS keeping the peace.

Peace officers are hired by the people to protect the people. the people didn't outfit them in military gear and equipment.

Again, those who decide to break laws and cause civil disturbance should NOT expect nothing less from our police force. Got it poncho? Police "force" means they act in force to keep the peace. Thank God for these men and women. And to make it clear, no pity for protesters turned rioters. :BangHead:

Well when the tanks go patrolling your neighborhood and officers with assault weapons are walking down your streets, let us know how that whole "keeping the peace" bit is working out for ya.

 

[InTheLight]

Having thought about this for a while--and this is only a gut feeling--I think the incidences of cops shooting suspects on a percentage of the population basis has probably decreased, but only slightly. Certainly not decreased enough for black people to believe cops won't shoot first and ask questions later.

There's just too many lawsuits holding cops liable for all sorts of things, too many new internal police regulations, and internal policing of the police procedures for cops to continue to just shoot people willy nilly.

That said, there's still way too many shootings of both armed and unarmed suspects. Just as the past 50 years of movies and TV shows has taught us you can't arrest someone without "reading them their rights", perhaps these rashes of videotaped shooting will lead to more cautious procedures by police. We can only hope.

 

[Zaac]

Having thought about this for a while--and this is only a gut feeling--I think the incidences of cops shooting suspects on a percentage of the population basis has probably decreased, but only slightly. Certainly not decreased enough for black people to believe cops won't shoot first and ask questions later.

There's just too many lawsuits holding cops liable for all sorts of things, too many new internal police regulations, and internal policing of the police procedures for cops to continue to just shoot people willy nilly.

That said, there's still way too many shootings of both armed and unarmed suspects. Just as the past 50 years of movies and TV shows has taught us you can't arrest someone without "reading them their rights", perhaps these rashes of videotaped shooting will lead to more cautious procedures by police. We can only hope.

AMEN!:applause:

 

[InTheLight]

There's just too many lawsuits holding cops liable for all sorts of things, too many new internal police regulations, and internal policing of the police procedures for cops to continue to just shoot people willy nilly.

--------------

NYPD recruits are about to get a crash course in the ABCs of policing.

The federal monitor overseeing reforms to the NYPD wants the current class of Police Academy recruits to be taught groundbreaking new concepts like: Don’t be racist, don’t mock others, don’t tell sexist jokes and don’t hassle people for no reason.

The monitor, Peter Zimroth, asked Manhattan Federal Judge Analisa Torres on Monday to approve the stack of new training materials that will be presented to the class of cadets graduating in June. He included in filings more than 75 PowerPoint slides that delve into the nitty-gritty of police work, detail constitutional stop-and-frisk practices — and give remedial directions that, it is hoped, the officers already know.

“Do not imitate the speech patterns of others: This will appear disingenuous, artificial and possibly racist,” reads another. “Avoid expressing stereotypical assumptions. ‘He’s Irish but I’ve never seen him drunk,’ ” reads another.

http://nydn.us/1zEYNhj

 

[carpro]

I think this has been going on for a long time and the cops have been getting away with it because they cover for one another, the prosecutors cover for them, and they all know what words to include in their reports to get a "justified" kill.

I don't know that the cops are getting more trigger happy. I think that Blacks have reached a boiling point with seeing unarmed black men shot dead and left laying in the streets and not even a charge gets pressed against the officers.

I think Blacks and Brown people are finally speaking up because they realize that this is the SAME type mass murder and genocide that took place ta the hands of white men during slavery and Jim Crow.

I think Black people are tired of hearing the US talk about ISIS and ISIL and human rights violations in the Middle East and throughout that region, while the very same folks trying to send us to war over there don't give a flying hoot about the human rights violations against Blacks in this country.

And they are finally fed up with it. PRAISE GOD.

Yada, Yada, Yada some-o same-o

Praise God???? Really? Your post has nothing at all to do with praising God.

It's more like glorifying the devil and the divisiveness he loves.

 

[Zaac]

Yada, Yada, Yada some-o same-o

Praise God???? Really? Your post has nothing at all to do with praising God.

It's more like glorifying the devil and the divisiveness he loves.

Boring. Back to IGNORE with you too.:sleep:

 

[Crabtownboy]

A few numbers

Number of killings listed by law enforcement officers in the United States, 2015 (total 111, as of April 12, 2015)
Number of killings listed by law enforcement officers in the United States, 2014 (total: 593)
Number of killings listed by law enforcement officers in the United States, 2013 (total: 320)
Number of killings listed by law enforcement officers in the United States, 2012 (total: 596)
Number of killings listed by law enforcement officers in the United States, 2011 (total: 163)
Number of killings listed by law enforcement officers in the United States, 2010 (total: 222)
Number of killings listed by law enforcement officers in the United States, 2009 (total: 62)