Cornelius’ Conversion

[SavedByGrace]

I did in post #23.

Cornelius and his household were God-fearing Gentiles that worshipped God according to OT Law. Just as some Jewish believers were said to have pleased God with sincere worship according to OT Law, so did they.

Such commendations must be understood in the light of the truth that no one kept the OT Law so as to achieve salvation.

Salvation was always by grace, which you have repeatedly stated.

In OT days, these saints believed the promises of the coming Messiah. Where they had the shadow, we have the substance in the person of Jesus Christ.

The question you seem to be asking is if Cornelius was chosen by God for salvation based on the good deeds he did that pleased God?

I did not believe that can be true, based on the complete testimony of scripture concerning God’s choice of His elect for salvation.

peace to you

I have already clearly said in the OP, that I do NOT believe ANY "good works" can EVER save a sinner, and given three examples from Scripture. However, it "seems" from Acts chapter 10, that a sinners "good works" are somehow "acceptable" before God, in the case of Cornelius, his "much giving" to the poor, which God was "pleased" with. It also says, that in any nation, those who "fear" God, and "work righteousness" (good deeds), are "acceptable" to God? This is NOT OT worship as you say, as it is after Jesus Rose from the dead, and the start of the Christian Church, the period of "Grace", and NOT "works". What you are saying does not apply here.

 

[kyredneck]

But no one has dealt with the Words of the Lord in Acts chapter 10 that speak of good deeds that please the Lord

I did in post #33. (actually post #6)

 

[kyredneck]

so this is "works" before salvation that God "accepts" from a sinner?

Post #33.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Post #33.

You are allowing your theology to understand what Peter says in this chapter. As it stands, it does not say what you would like it to!

 

[canadyjd]

……. those who "fear" God, and "work righteousness" (good deeds), are "acceptable" to God? This is NOT OT worship as you say, as it is after Jesus Rose from the dead, and the start of the Christian Church, the period of "Grace", and NOT "works". What you are saying does not apply here.

This was still during the time the Christian church was almost entirely Jewish and considered a sect of Judaism.

This purpose of this revelation from God was to show Peter salvation was also going to Gentiles.

The term “God-fearer” is a technical term for Gentiles converted to Judaism and is certainly who Peter was referring to when he said, “those who fear God and work righteousness.”

peace to you

 

[canadyjd]

….., it "seems" from Acts chapter 10, that a sinners "good works" are somehow "acceptable" before God…..

Do you believe God choses people for salvation based on their “good works”?

If you don’t, try to plainly explain how this “acceptance” of the good works of sinners is connected to salvation.

peace to you

 

[SavedByGrace]

Do you believe God choses people for salvation based on their “good works”?

If you don’t, try to plainly explain how this “acceptance” of the good works of sinners is connected to salvation.

peace to you

the OP answers this.

However, verse 4 still needs to be explained, “Your prayers and charitable gifts have ascended as a memorial offering before God.”.

 

[kyredneck]

You are allowing your theology to understand what Peter says in this chapter. As it stands, it does not say what you would like it to!

You are allowing your obsessive hatred of all things Calvinist blind you to what all is entailed in this record.

 

[AustinC]

the OP answers this.

However, verse 4 still needs to be explained, “Your prayers and charitable gifts have ascended as a memorial offering before God.”.

Cornelius had been elect/adopted from before the foundation of the world. Thus God acknowledged Cornelius had been chosen and gifted faith. God was revealing to Cornelius that the Promised One has come (no longer a future hope) and had redeemed Cornelius via the Messiah, Jesus.

Why would God not let His chosen ones know that the Promised One had come? We see this when baby Jesus is brought to the temple and Jesus is held by and prophesied over by the saints who had waited for that day. God is a good God.

 

[SavedByGrace]

You are allowing your obsessive hatred of all things Calvinist blind you to what all is entailed in this record.

this is the response that I do expect by someone who is a "Calvinist"!. You cannot deal with the passage from Acts 10 as it reads in the Bible, because it is AGAINIST your "theology". So, you try to rubbish what the Bible says here, by misquoting from other passages from the Bible, and then personal attacks! IF you were able to understand the English language, you will then see from the OP, that I 100% and AGAINST any "works salvation", because the Bible IS! What I have said, is that the language used by Peter, is clear, that somehow, "good works" are "acceptable" to the Lord, from a sinner. I cannot reconcile the two, hence the OP!

 

[kyredneck]

this is the response that I do expect by someone who is a "Calvinist"

It's the truth...and I'm not a Calvinist. If all you want to wring out of this record is God rewarded Cornelius because of his good works it proves your Calvinist-hating tunnel vision.

 

[AustinC]

this is the response that I do expect by someone who is a "Calvinist"!. You cannot deal with the passage from Acts 10 as it reads in the Bible, because it is AGAINIST your "theology". So, you try to rubbish what the Bible says here, by misquoting from other passages from the Bible, and then personal attacks! IF you were able to understand the English language, you will then see from the OP, that I 100% and AGAINST any "works salvation", because the Bible IS! What I have said, is that the language used by Peter, is clear, that somehow, "good works" are "acceptable" to the Lord, from a sinner. I cannot reconcile the two, hence the OP!

It seems you wish to ignore all of scripture, which guides our understanding, and instead interpret only from one verse or sentence. False doctrines are created by people who make up theology from a sentence or verse while ignoring the whole.

 

[SavedByGrace]

It's the truth...and I'm not a Calvinist. If all you want to wring out of this record is God rewarded Cornelius because of his good works it proves your Calvinist-hating tunnel vision.

Whatever

 

[AustinC]

Whatever

[post edited by Scarlett O.]

 

[kyredneck]

Whatever

Cornelius feared God and worked righteous BEFORE hearing the gospel.

Abraham feared God and worked righteousness BEFORE Genesis 15:6.

Nathanael was "an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile" BEFORE he ever met Christ. Jn 1:47

Those Jews at Pentecost were devout men BEFORE hearing the preaching. Acts 2:5

....all 'regenerate' BEFORE hearing the gospel of Christ.

Regeneration BEFORE faith.

 

[kyredneck]

You are allowing your theology to

Your man-centric theology reeks with the flesh.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Cornelius feared God and worked righteous BEFORE hearing the gospel.

Abraham feared God and worked righteousness BEFORE Genesis 15:6.

Nathanael was "an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile" BEFORE he ever met Christ. Jn 1:47

Those Jews at Pentecost were devout men BEFORE hearing the preaching. Acts 2:5

....all 'regenerate' BEFORE hearing the gospel of Christ.

Regeneration BEFORE faith.

What you have FAILED to deal with, is what it says in these verses:

"a devout man and one who feared God with all his household, who gave alms generously to the people, and prayed to God always" - ver 2

"Your prayers and your alms have come up for a memorial before God", - ver 4

"And they said, “Cornelius the centurion, a just man, one who fears God and has a good reputation among all the nation of the Jews, was divinely instructed by a holy angel to summon you to his house, and to hear words from you.” , ver 24

"But in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him", ver 35

"And he told us how he had seen an angel standing in his house, who said to him, ‘Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon whose surname is Peter, who will tell you words by which you and all your household will be saved", 11:13-14

ALL of this is before Cornelius was saved. It is very clear, that his "good works in giving to the poor", were "REMEMBERED" by the Lord, Who sent Peter to Cornelius, so that he and his house-hold could hear the Gospel, and get saved. Why mention that he was a "generous giver", and had "a good reputation", and "works righteousness", IF they mean nothing? Your argument is not with me, but with the very clear and plain Teachings of the Holy Bible. You don't like what the Bible is saying, so you take offence, and attack others for presenting the Truth from the Bible. I have NO problems with this, as it exposes your hostility to what the Bible says!

 

[kyredneck]

ALL of this is before Cornelius was saved.

Yes. But all of this BECAUSE he was regenerate. Post #13

 

[George Antonios]

It is also at this place in the Scriptures that we who hold to a Historical View of End Times and not a Futuristic view believe that Daniel’s 70 weeks ended, Daniel 9:24-27. For we believe in the midst of the 69th week Christ, He in Daniel 9:27, confirmed His Covenant Galatians 3:16-17; Matthew 26:26-28. While the last half of the week the Gospel was solely a Jewish message. But with Cornelius conversion the Jews realized it was a universal message read Act 11:18. Thus the 70 Weeks ended with God giving us Gentiles free access to eternal life.

Hey brother, I've read through the posts and understand your frustration of your specific points not being addressed.
Calvinism cannot address your specific points.
There is nothing difficult about Acts 10. It doesn't say that his good works saved him, only that God saw in Cornelius a man who was at least trying and seeking to follow what basic revelation he had. Therefore, God gave him the opportunity to hear the fuller revelation of the gospel. All this is in line with scriptures:
Psa 50:23 Whoso offereth praise glorifieth me: and to him that ordereth his conversation aright will I shew the salvation of God.
Cornelius was ordering his conversation (behaviour) aright and so God showed him salvation by grace in the gospel, as preached of Peter.
By the way, this answers the question about the heathen who never heard. If a heathen man died truly never having heard, then he did not want to hear more revelation than he already had, which is why God justly did not give him more in the form of the gospel, hence: Psa 119:155 Salvation is far from the wicked: FOR they seek not thy statutes. But those heathen who, like Cornelius, are at least honest with the conscience and creation, God sends them the further revelation of the gospel.
So, good works are never good enough to earn salvation, however, they do catch God's attention as a mark of honesty (and filthy rags are still better than nothing) which prompts God to give such a man the revelation of the gospel which is salvation without works. This is also in line with Romans 2: Rom 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds: Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: Rom 2:8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Rom 2:9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; Rom 2:10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: Rom 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
Thus the Gentile of Paul's words here was illustrated in the Gentile Cornelius (it's true that Acts is more of a historical book, but Acts 10 illustrates the doctrine of Romans 2 and Psalm 50:23 in action, and our Calvinist brethren never shy from quoting Acts doctrinally when it suits their system), and note how Paul's for there is no respect of persons with God (Ro.2:11) matches Peter's Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons (Acts 10:34), thus confirming that Acts 10 is Romans 2 in action.
Of course, to our Calvinist brethren, such theology on the part of God is unacceptable, for they, being more royal than the King, classify this as being salvation by works even though God himself does not.
The idea that Cornelius was already regenerated, is of course, bordering on madness, and is nothing but a cop-out that doesn't deal with the words. It's the Calvinistic system's auto-immune response in the face of opposing scripture.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Yes. But all of this BECAUSE he was regenerate. Post #13

you say that you are not a "Calvinist"? Yet you argue like one! To say that a sinner believes in the Gospel, because they are first "regenerated" by the Holy Spirit, is the same as saying that they are saved, before they are saved, or, that they are saved TWICE! Regardless of this absurd theology, it is clear from the Bible, that REGENERATION is the SAME as BORN AGAIN, which is in Titus 3:5