Coronavirus and Christ

[Van]

Not nullified at all. They just dont prove your premise stated in your original response to me. Look at my post 4. Follow your responses and observe how you went off the rails.

Post 5 is off the rails folks!
Post 7 is off the rails folks!
Post 11 is off the rails folks!

Now take a look at post 12, where my premise is altered by Reynolds, to suggest I say the harsh environment would cause "all" to seek God as a refuge. Of course this is a misrepresentation which of course is "off the rails."

 

[Reynolds]

Post 5 is off the rails folks!
Post 7 is off the rails folks!
Post 11 is off the rails folks!

Now take a look at post 12, where my premise is altered by Reynolds, to suggest I say the harsh environment would cause "all people" to seek God as a refuge. Of course this is a misrepresentation which of course is "off the rails."

I suggested a harsh enviornment can cause 3 responses. From that point, you went off the rails.

 

[Van]

I suggested a harsh environment can cause 3 responses. From that point, you went off the rails.

Note I never went off the rails. But I provided his misrepresentation.

 

[Particular]

Romans 8:18-25
18For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us. 19For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God. 20For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it, in hope 21that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God. 22For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now. 23And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. 24For in this hope we were saved. Now hope that is seen is not hope. For who hopes for what he sees? 25But if we hope for what we do not see, we wait for it with patience.

 

[Particular]

Dr. Piper shares this passage as his thesis for his book on Coronavirus and Christ:
1 Thessalonians 5:9-11
9For God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, 10who died for us so that whether we are awake or asleep we might live with him. 11Therefore encourage one another and build one another up, just as you are doing.

Dr. Piper's conclusion is that the Coronavirus is not sent to humans in wrath, but is sent to humans in love. God is lovingly working to get our attention and bring us to repentance rather than simply judge us justly and condemn us to hell. This virus, then, is a blessed God-send to humanity.

 

[Van]

Romans 8:18-25
18For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us. 19For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God. 20For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it, in hope 21that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God. 22For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now. 23And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. 24For in this hope we were saved. Now hope that is seen is not hope. For who hopes for what he sees? 25But if we hope for what we do not see, we wait for it with patience.

This passage supports the view that our harsh environment facilitates the lost seeking God as a refuge.

 

[Van]

Dr. Piper shares this passage as his thesis for his book on Coronavirus and Christ:
1 Thessalonians 5:9-11
9For God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, 10who died for us so that whether we are awake or asleep we might live with him. 11Therefore encourage one another and build one another up, just as you are doing.

Dr. Piper's conclusion is that the Coronavirus is not sent to humans in wrath, but is sent to humans in love. God is lovingly working to get our attention and bring us to repentance rather than simply judge us justly and condemn us to hell. This virus, then, is a blessed God-send to humanity.

Did anyone say God sent the Coronavirus in wrath? Nope! Scripture indicates our harsh environment results in some people seeking God as a refuge.

Psalms 11:1
Psalms 18:2
Hebrews 6:18

 

[Particular]

Did anyone say God sent the Coronavirus in wrath? Nope! Scripture indicates our harsh environment results in some people seeking God as a refuge.

Psalms 11:1
Psalms 18:2
Hebrews 6:18

You are misunderstanding what God says.
that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God.

Creation is set free (by God) and when god set's creation free from the bondage to corruption, it means that God has set His children free.

Not all humans are children of God, Van.

Who are the children of God? Ephesians 1 tells us that the children of God are those who were chosen from before the foundation of the world.

You have added your interpretation that "some people seek God as a refuge", but the passage never says this. You add it without any evidence.

 

[Van]

You are misunderstanding what God says.
that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God.

Creation is set free (by God) and when god set's creation free from the bondage to corruption, it means that God has set His children free.

Not all humans are children of God, Van.

Who are the children of God? Ephesians 1 tells us that the children of God are those who were chosen from before the foundation of the world.

You have added your interpretation that "some people seek God as a refuge", but the passage never says this. You add it without any evidence.

1) Ad hominem - Van does not understand what God says.
2) Creation in this passage refers to mankind, and not plants, or rocks.
3) All humans were made "sinners!"
4) Not all humans are placed in Christ, made alive together with Christ, born anew, forgiven, justified, and glorified.
5) Only those God places in Christ are the "children of God."

Did anyone say God sent the Coronavirus in wrath? Nope! Scripture indicates our harsh environment results in some people seeking God as a refuge.

Psalms 11:1
Psalms 18:2
Hebrews 6:18

 

[Particular]

1) Ad hominem - Van does not understand what God says.
2) Creation in this passage refers to mankind, and not plants, or rocks.
3) All humans were made "sinners!"
4) Not all humans are placed in Christ, made alive together with Christ, born anew, forgiven, justified, and glorified.
5) Only those God places in Christ are the "children of God."

Did anyone say God sent the Coronavirus in wrath? Nope! Scripture indicates our harsh environment results in some people seeking God as a refuge.

Psalms 11:1
Psalms 18:2
Hebrews 6:18

You are misunderstanding what God says.
that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God.

Creation is set free (by God) and when god set's creation free from the bondage to corruption, it means that God has set His children free.

Not all humans are children of God, Van.

Who are the children of God? Ephesians 1 tells us that the children of God are those who were chosen from before the foundation of the world.

You have added your interpretation that "some people seek God as a refuge", but the passage never says this. You add it without any evidence.

 

[Van]

My repeat rebuttal in red

You are misunderstanding what God says.
Ad hominems are logical fallacies, behold the defense of false doctrine with false arguments.

Not all humans are children of God, Van.
Note how the Calvinists ignore the rebuttal and simply repeat the false assertion. Here was my response the first time this deflection was posted: 4) Not all humans are placed in Christ, made alive together with Christ, born anew, forgiven, justified, and glorified.

Who are the children of God? Ephesians 1 tells us that the children of God are those who were chosen from before the foundation of the world. Another repeat, another sidestepping of the response, another non-discussion: Here was my response the first time this deflection was posted: 5) Only those God places in Christ are the "children of God." As far as the timing of our individual election for salvation, it was after we lived not as a people, having not yet obtained mercy, 1 Peter 2:9-10

You have added your interpretation that "some people seek God as a refuge", but the passage never says this. You add it without any evidence. Here we see that according to Calvinism, no one ever seeks God as a refuge.
Psalms 2:12
[Do homage to the Son, that He not become angry, and you perish in the way,
For His wrath may soon be kindled.
How blessed are all who take refuge in Him!

Psalms 5:11
But let all who take refuge in You be glad,
Let them ever sing for joy;
And may You shelter them,
That those who love Your name may exult in You.

Psalms 7:1
A Shiggaion of David, which he sang to the LORD concerning Cush, a Benjamite.
O LORD my God, in You I have taken refuge;
Save me from all those who pursue me, and deliver me,

To defend Calvinism you must deny scripture after scripture, why is that?

 

[AustinC]

Post 5 is off the rails folks!
Post 7 is off the rails folks!
Post 11 is off the rails folks!

Now take a look at post 12, where my premise is altered by Reynolds, to suggest I say the harsh environment would cause "all" to seek God as a refuge. Of course this is a misrepresentation which of course is "off the rails."

I agree with Reynolds regarding what you are doing.

 

[Van]

COVID = Christ Overcomes Viruses Infections Death

Why did God create such a harsh environment? To facilitate the fallen to seek God as a refuge!

Psalms 11:1
Psalms 18:2
Hebrews 6:18

And these verses indicate people sought God as a refuge.

Psalms 2:12
Psalms 5:11
Psalms 7:1

Note: Covid acronym lifted from an unknown (by me) Pastor in Southern California.

 

[MB]

Those who know God seek God, but then not all seek Him. God may be urging them to come to Him but he never forces man .
MB

 

[MB]

COVID = Christ Overcomes Viruses Infections Death.
It's just as likely that Covid really means (China orders viruses infections and death) to lower there populations . After all China the only country in the world to war against it's own people.
Think about it Covid 19 what happened to the first 18 viruses.
MB

 

[AustinC]

Those who know God seek God, but then not all seek Him. God may be urging them to come to Him but he never forces man .
MB

Tell that to Saul of Tarsus.

 

[Van]

Those who know God seek God, but then not all seek Him. God may be urging them to come to Him but he never forces man .

Tell that to Saul of Tarsus.

The unstated implication of AustinC's post is that Saul was "forced" (compelled) rather than persuaded to follow Jesus. Of course no verse is cited to support this fiction. The truth is Paul chose to obey the "heavenly vision" and chose not to disobey the vision. Persuasion folks, not compulsion. Acts of the Apostles 26:19

Certainly God had a plan for Paul from the beginning of his life, but he was called, not compelled, invited persuasively but not irresistibly. Galatians 1:15

 

[percho]

The unstated implication of AustinC's post is that Saul was "forced" (compelled) rather than persuaded to follow Jesus. Of course no verse is cited to support this fiction. The truth is Paul chose to obey the "heavenly vision" and chose not to disobey the vision. Persuasion folks, not compulsion. Acts of the Apostles 26:19

Certainly God had a plan for Paul from the beginning of his life, but he was called, not compelled, invited persuasively but not irresistibly. Galatians 1:15

I think Paul was going down the road in unbelief, called by Jesus, struck blind, and after three days, through the power of the Holy Spirit was translated from being, of unbelief, to being, of belief and given sight.

 

[Particular]

Saul didn't know what was coming. He was struck blind. He would have remained blind had not God chose to remove Saul's blindness.
Call it persuasion or call it forced. Saul was specifically chosen and caused to repent by the will of God.

 

[MB]

Paul submitted to Christ on the road during the vision when he asked the Lord what Christ would have him do.
MB