Could Christ have sinned?

[Lodic]

This is your faulty understanding of the Person of the Lord Jesus Christ. You have failed to show, how Jesus Christ, with a Perfect, Sinless, human nature, could have "fallen", which is only possible if His human nature was completely like our own, which has "sinfulness" in it. This is not in Christ's human nature. So, as the God-Man, not "exalted Man", Who IS Percfect, how could He have "possibly sinned"? I really don't know why people want to even discuss such a teachings that no doubt has its origin in hell. Augustine believed in a heretical view of the Atonement of Jesus Christ, so I don't listen to much of what he says!

Nobody on this discussion disputes that Jesus was perfect. He was perfect because He was fully submissive to the Father. We agree that Jesus was hungry at the end of the 40 days in the wilderness. This is when Satan choose to tempt Him. If Jesus could be hungry and still be perfect, why couldn't He also be capable of sin - especially when He was at His physical weakest point? What was the point of Him even going through the temptation if it were not possible for Him to sin?

 

[SavedByGrace]

Moot point. He said "not My will, but Thy will" throughout His entire life.

That is to show US, that we are to always submit to the will of God! Note Jesus' words in John 11:41-42, "And Jesus lifted up His eyes and said, “Father, I thank You that You have heard Me. And I know that You always hear Me, but because of the people who are standing by I said this, that they may believe that You sent Me.” Jesus did and said many things for the benefit our His hearers, and not for Himself.

Let me ask you this one question. Do you believe that the human nature of Jesus Christ is Perfect, or like ours, fallen?

 

[SavedByGrace]

especially when He was at His physical weakest point? What was the point of Him even going through the temptation if it were not possible for Him to sin?

Firstly, you speak as though Jesus Christ is only man! He IS The God-Man, in ONE Person. This Person cannot be divided into two, which is a grave heresy. Jesus' testing by the devil was done in the hope that Jesus might fail. How many times we read of people going out to war against a country that is far stronger and most certainly they would be defeated? the OT is full of such accounts. However, these weaker nations still went out to battle, in the HOPE that they MIGHT win, even though this was IMPOSSIBLE from even before they went to battle! The devil already fully knows, as he has seen this in the Bible, that he WILL be defeated by the Lord Jesus Christ as it says in the Book of Revelation, and YET, he is still going to fight! Why, you may ask, if he already knows that he will 100% be defeated! Likewise with the testings of Jesus, the devil knew that Jesus Christ is Almighty God, Who remained God and became the God-Man, and that He IS Invincible in His Person. But, since the devil is THE deceiver, he himself got deceived!

 

[SavedByGrace]

It is impossible that I cheat on my wife.
It is impossible that I run a marathon.

The first is a matter of character and nature, not ability.

The second is a matter of ability, not character or nature.

you are trying to use human logic, with the Perfect Person of Jesus Christ, as fully God and fully Man. I still await a response to what I have said in #24.

 

[JonC]

you are trying to use human logic, with the Perfect Person of Jesus Christ, as fully God and fully Man. I still await a response to what I have said in #24.

No. I am using Scripture. God is righteous, not weak.

 

[JonC]

refute what I have said in #24

The passage you quote speaks of God's nature, Gid's holiness, Gid's righteousness. NOT Hod's weakness or moral chains.

It is impossible for God to sin because sin is not in God's nature, NOT because the action was beyond God's capability.

 

[JonC]

Your interpretation that a Person in the Godhead could lie is idiotic. Why? There is only the one God. And the Persons who are the one and the same God are one and the same God and not gods.

You should pay closer attention to Scripture. It is impossible for God to lie because He is righteous, holy and just.....NOT because He is weak or lacks the capability.

God is not bound by His moral characteristics. These characteristics are descriptive of God.

Why cannot you simply accept that God is righteous? Why cannot that be the reason He cannot lie? Why do you have to diminish God and make Him a Servant to some code?

 

[SavedByGrace]

The passage you quote speaks of God's nature, Gid's holiness, Gid's righteousness. NOT Hod's weakness or moral chains.

It is impossible for God to sin because sin is not in God's nature, NOT because the action was beyond God's capability.

Is the human nature of Jesus Christ, perfect and sinless? or is it a fallen nature like ours?

 

[SavedByGrace]

You should pay closer attention to Scripture

this will certainly help with your own Christology, which is very much flawed! as you are reasoning humanly and not what the Bible actually says!

 

[JonC]

Is the human nature of Jesus Christ, perfect and sinless? or is it a fallen nature like ours?

Ahhh...I wondered when you would try to change the topic.

Christ is righteous, we are not except in Him.

But you were not speaking of nature (that was my argument). You said Christ lacked the ability.

Where Scripture relies on God's righteousness you rely on what you see as divine inability. You choose to turn righteous into weakness.

This is one reason word studies can be dangerous. You are not the first to be misled by your lack of biblical literacy - not seeing the forest for the trees.

 

[SavedByGrace]

You said Christ lacked the ability

really, where did I say this? you have yet again failed to answer my very simple question. If, as the Bible does teach, that BOTH the Human and Divine Natures in Jesus Christ, are HOLY and SINLESS, HOW is it possible to "temp to sin", the Person the Lord Jesus Christ?

For those who keep on with the strawman argument, that if Jesus Christ could not have sinned, then why did the devil tempt Him. The answer is found in one word, PRIDE, on the devils part! The same way he through PRIDE thought that he could somehow usurp God, while he was a chief angel before the Lord, even though he would have known that he would utterly FAIL. The same way the devil, through his PRIDE, thought he could get Jesus to fail because He had not eaten food, or drunk water for 40 days, and assumed that He would be weak!

 

[JonC]

really, where did I say this?

My argument is that Jesus had the ability but sin was not in His nature. My argument has been that it is impossible for Christ to have sinned because of His nature, not any inability.

You rejected my position and stated it is unbiblical.

 

[SGO]

I guess you solved the problem of why the devil wasted all his time trying to persuade Jesus.

For we have not an high priest
which cannot be touched with the feelings of our infirmities;
but was in all points tempted
like as we are,
yet without sin.
Hebrews 4:15

 

[SavedByGrace]

Jesus had the ability but sin was not in His nature

so where was this "ability"? in his mind/will/heart? please clarify

 

[SGO]

in all points tempted
like as we are

 

[SavedByGrace]

I guess you solved the problem of why the devil wasted all his time trying to persuade Jesus.

For we have not an high priest
which cannot be touched with the feelings of our infirmities;
but was in all points tempted
like as we are,
yet without sin.
Hebrews 4:15

you are right, brother, the devil did waste his time trying to get Jesus to fail, knowing full well that he could not! He did the same thing before he was banished from the presence of the Lord in Heaven, when, though pride, he very foolishly thought that he could topple the Lord of Glory! He deceives himself!!!

 

[SavedByGrace]

in all points tempted
like as we are

no one is saying that Jesus Christ was not "tried" by the devil. but COULD He have failed! To this I have shown many times, NO, not even a remote POSSIBLITY!

 

[Lodic]

Firstly, you speak as though Jesus Christ is only man! He IS The God-Man, in ONE Person. This Person cannot be divided into two, which is a grave heresy. Jesus' testing by the devil was done in the hope that Jesus might fail. How many times we read of people going out to war against a country that is far stronger and most certainly they would be defeated? the OT is full of such accounts. However, these weaker nations still went out to battle, in the HOPE that they MIGHT win, even though this was IMPOSSIBLE from even before they went to battle! The devil already fully knows, as he has seen this in the Bible, that he WILL be defeated by the Lord Jesus Christ as it says in the Book of Revelation, and YET, he is still going to fight! Why, you may ask, if he already knows that he will 100% be defeated! Likewise with the testings of Jesus, the devil knew that Jesus Christ is Almighty God, Who remained God and became the God-Man, and that He IS Invincible in His Person. But, since the devil is THE deceiver, he himself got deceived!

For simplicity, I will respond to both of your responses here . "Do you believe that the human nature of Jesus Christ is Perfect, or like ours, fallen?" Adam had the ability to sin, and the ability not to sin. Obviously, he chose poorly. As a result of Adam's fall, we have a fallen sinful nature. Because of our sin nature, we do not have the ability not to sin. Jesus, as the 2nd Adam, had the same ability as the 1st Adam - to sin or not. In His humanity Jesus did not have our fallen sinful nature.

It would be heresy if I were to divide the God-man into 2 persons. I never implied that.

The only reason Satan would hope Jesus would fail is the possibility was there. Hope this helps to clear up your misunderstanding.

 

[SGO]

, the devil did waste his time trying to get Jesus to fail, knowing full well that he could not! He deceives himself!!!

 

[SavedByGrace]

The only reason Satan would hope Jesus would fail is the possibility was there

not so! As I have already said, the devil knew full well that he could never have usurped, The Lord God Almighty, when he was in Heaven in the presence of the Lord, but nonetheless TRIED. "Could" the devil have succeded this this? NO WAY, but YET he did TRY! He also knows that defeat is CERTAIN in the Last Final Battle, but, again, the devil will again fight. Is it possible that he can defeat the Lord? ABSOLUTELY NO! But he will TRY!