Could Jesus hate?

[webdog]

There are what is known as imprecatory Psalms . For instance , David , in Ps. 139:21,22 says : O Lord , shouldn't I hate those wqho hate you ? Souldn't I despise those who oppose you ? Yes , I hate them with total hatred , for your enemies are my enemies . ( NLT2)

That kind of righteous hatred is rare among God's people . We could fall into sin ( murder in our hearts ) even when we think we have rigteous hated for some people .

But God has the perfect right to hate anyone He so chooses . He is blameless -- He's God and perfectly just . It says in Psalm 5:5 that He hates all who do evil . In Psalm 11:5 it say He hates those who love violence .

And notice that God does not make the distinction that many Christians do . they say one should hate the sin , but love the sinner . God hates both the sinner and the sin .

There is a difference ( classic understatement ) between humans and God . He can command things which God Himself can do with impunity . No one should think more highly of themself than they ought . But God revels in His own glory for instance .

Do you hate your family? Do you hate yourself? You better not love them!!
Luk 14:26 "If anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple.

 

[amity]

Mat 5:43"You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.'
Mat 5:44But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, Luk 6:27"But I say to you who hear, Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you,

Exactly!!!

Quote immediately above on hating mother and father means what you or someone else said it means.

 

[webdog]

No. God does not love the devil. God hates the devil.

Scripture?

No. Jesus hates the devil as well. This shows that Hate is in Jesus nature.

Scripture?

Also ....Revelation 2:6
But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate.

This two shows the nature of Jesus. Jesus has the power to hate.

Did Christ hate the Nicolatians...or their deeds?

For what? Name one thing God could lust for. All things are His.

Satan's temptations on the mount were fake then I guess?

With who? There is not she gods. We are the bride...the Church

Are you separating Jesus' humanity? He could have slept with anyone while on earth, could He not?

How can you dare say God cannot do anything?

Easy. Can God sin?

Who do you think God is anyway?

Obviously more righteous than you do...

You act is if you can control Him. Guess what...you cannot.

Thanks for that useful information...I never knew that

Now...does God have the right to hate?

Absolutely. The only definition you give for "hate"? No.

Will you still limit God to your doctrine?

You allow God only one meaning of the word hate...and you have the nerve to say MY doctrine limits HIm? Yeah, whatever...

 

[Jarthur001]

Mat 5:43"You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.'
Mat 5:44But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,

Luk 6:27 "But I say to you who hear, Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you,

Are you saying that God loves the devil?

 

[webdog]

Exactly!!!

Quote immediately above on hating mother and father means what you or someone else said it means.

Don't tell jaruthur or johnp that. It has to only mean the witholding of love...

 

[webdog]

Are you saying that God loves the devil?

Is the red type my words?

 

[amity]

Don't tell jaruthur or johnp that. It has to only mean the witholding of love...

I think the difference in the hate of Esau and the hate of parents has to do with the original OT verses. I think they probably know that.

And even in ordinary parlance I think hatred is something other than withholding of love. The opposite of love is indifference, right?

 

[Rippon]

There is a marked difference between God's hatred of Esau in Romans 9:13 and the text of Luke 14:26 . In the last reference it's comparative . We are warned to love all other less ( far less ) than the Lord . If there would be a choice between denying Christ or our families -- we would have to give up our families . A sister verse to the one in Luke is Matthrew 10:37 : anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me ...

So it's a figurative hatred in those two references . But the hatred that God has for Esau is literal . The Lord does not mean that He loves Esau less than Jacob . That would mean that He hates Jacob less than Esau . And of course that is nonsense . Unfortunately a great Reformed scholar had this understanding . The CEV has the "loved less " in its text . But it is not biblical .

 

[Rippon]

Amity , I have agreed with much of what you have said in your posts . But the opposite of love in the Bible is hate . Perhaps in common speech indifference is seen as the reverse of love or even hatred , but that's not the way Scripture has it .

 

[amity]

Amity , I have agreed with much of what you have said in your posts . But the opposite of love in the Bible is hate . Perhaps in common speech indifference is seen as the reverse of love or even hatred , but that's not the way Scripture has it .

Its not? Can you give examples?

I think Biblical hatred is more than just the absence of love.

 

[webdog]

There is a marked difference between God's hatred of Esau in Romans 9:13 and the text of Luke 14:26

According to who? Romans 9-11 is dealing with Israel.

So it's a figurative hatred in those two references . But the hatred that God has for Esau is literal .

Oh really? Why did God continue to bless Esau?

The Lord does not mean that He loves Esau less than Jacob

According to you and reformed theology in general. According to Scriptural context you are wrong.

That would mean that He hates Jacob less than Esau . And of course that is nonsense

That is nonsense, because it would never mean that. God sovereignly chose the decendants of Jacob over the decendants of Esau. He loved and showed special favor to the line of Jacob. It doesn't mean the opposite is true with Esau...that He witheld love from him.

 

[Jarthur001]

Scripture?

Scripture?

Hell is not to be viewed as a picnic webdog, so it is not a place you place you give as a love gift

41"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels

Did Christ hate the Nicolatians...or their deeds?

it was Deeds as I pointed out. It takes hate to hate deeds, or water, air, or ice cream. Hate has to come from the person that is hating. Christ hates deeds...which shows Christ can hate. What is so hard to understand?

Satan's temptations on the mount were fake then I guess?

Was Christ tempted? no. time to put up or shut up. Please list one thing God can lust after.

Are you separating Jesus' humanity? He could have slept with anyone while on earth, could He not?

This is not worth a reply

Easy. Can God sin?

no

Obviously more righteous than you do...

I'm not the one who has God sleeping with lady gods.

Thanks for that useful information...I never knew that

write it down this time.

Absolutely. The only definition you give for "hate"? No.

How about as the Bible uses the word hebrew word "sane"?

You allow God only one meaning of the word hate..

I didn't, God did. You want to change a word based on your doctrine, and you can give no proof to do so, other then you don't like the way the Bible talks about your God. Where were you when God was writing the Bible? Maybe you can ask Him to change it. If He lets you, its ok with me too.

.and you have the nerve to say MY doctrine limits HIm?

From the 1st time the word was wrote, till this day, God was fine with His Word. Little did He know you would find a mistake. no no no...God...you can't do that. please

Yeah, whatever...

another strawman....

 

[webdog]

Amity , I have agreed with much of what you have said in your posts . But the opposite of love in the Bible is hate . Perhaps in common speech indifference is seen as the reverse of love or even hatred , but that's not the way Scripture has it .

Here I agree with Rippon *gasp*

Indifference is not the opposite of love. I'm indifferent to little Johnny who lives on the other side of the world, but I don't hate him.

 

[Jarthur001]

Is the red type my words?

no its the Bible.

so...are you saying God loves the devil?

 

[webdog]

Hell is not to be viewed as a picnic webdog, so it is not a place you place you give as a love gift

41"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels

I'm sorry, that Scripture doesn't say God hates the devil.

it was Deeds as I pointed out. It takes hate to hate deeds, or water, air, or ice cream. Hate has to come from the person that is hating. Christ hates deeds...which shows Christ can hate. What is so hard to understand?

Hating deeds and hating the person committing the deeds are totally unrelated. I can hate something my son does without hating him.

Was Christ tempted? no. time to put up or shut up. Please list one thing God can lust after.

You deny Scripture?
Mat 4:1 Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil.
Mar 1:13 And he was in the wilderness forty days, being tempted by Satan. And he was with the wild animals, and the angels were ministering to him.
Luk 4:2 for forty days, being tempted by the devil. And he ate nothing during those days. And when they were ended, he was hungry.

I'm not the one who has God sleeping with lady gods.

Who said anything about "lady gods"? Was Christ human or not? Do humans have sex? You say it's not worth a response...is that because you are gnostic?

I didn't, God did. You want to change a word based on your doctrine, and you can give no proof to do so, other then you don't like the way the Bible talks about your God. Where were you when God was writing the Bible? Maybe you can ask Him to change it. If He lets you, its ok with me too.

G3404
μισέω
miseō
mis-eh'-o
From a primary word μῖσος misos (hatred); to detest (especially to persecute); by extension to love less: - hate (-ful).

H8130
שׂנא
śânê'
saw-nay'
A primitive root; to hate (personally): - enemy, foe, (be) hate (-ful, -r), odious, X utterly.

From the 1st time the word was wrote, till this day, God was fine with His Word. Little did He know you would find a mistake. no no no...God...you can't do that. please

I'm amazed you believe the Bible was originally written in english.

another strawman....

The phrase "yeah, whatever" is a strawman? You're losing it...

 

[webdog]

no its the Bible.

so...are you saying God loves the devil?

Can you show me where Scipture undoubtedly states He hates the devil? It must be found in Opinions 1:1

 

[Rippon]

Webdog , if Jesus came to destroy the works of the Devil , I would think that would be rather good evidence of God's hatred of Satan .

Amity , here are some verses from Proverbs . ( TNIV ) They present a contrast between the love and hatred of God .

3:32 For the LORD detests the perverse but takes the upright into his confidence .

11:20 The LORD detests those whose hearts are perverse , but he delights in those whoe ways are blameless .

15:9 The LORD detests the way of the wicked , but he loves those who pursue righteousness .

 

[Jarthur001]

webdog,

I'm sorry, that Scripture doesn't say God hates the devil.

The words, "I hate the devil" was not found in the verse. If Joe was to tell somone to.."go to Hell"...would this be looked at as act of love in Gods eyes?

Hating deeds and hating the person committing the deeds are totally unrelated. I can hate something my son does without hating him.

Right you are. Have I not always said this? You have said God cannot hate. If God hates just one little thing. If it is only paperclips that God hates, then hate is part of His nature. This is but a another strawman replying to this small verse so many times, when in the end you know you must agree that as I said form the start as a opening the my list of verses, that God can hate somethings. Mean time, you will not address the clear and plain verse speaking that He also hate men as it is recorded in the Word.

Like...

Psa 5:4
For thou [art] not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee.
Psa 5:5
The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

X Never addressed.

Rev 14:15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.


X Never addressed


Rev 14:20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand [and] six hundred furlongs.

X Never addressed

Malachi 1

1The burden of the word of the LORD to Israel by Malachi.

2I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, ASKED>>>>Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob,

PROOF >>>>>3And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.

X Never addressed

You deny Scripture?

No. Problem is...I believe all scripture. You it is clear hates the word hate.

and still not one thing on that list of things God can lust after. After asking 3 times it is my guess you have nothing but a blank clipboard. As said last time...put-up or shut-up. Nothing on the list ends this sad part of the debate, where we have you trying to prove a God that owns all things can lust after something.

Who said anything about "lady gods"? Was Christ human or not? Do humans have sex? You say it's not worth a response...is that because you are gnostic?

The da Vinci Code is not real Webdog. You are making the same claims as the movie. Your claims sound is if they come right out of the the gnostic gospels as did the movie. Yet you call others gnostic??? Do you not understand what this means? If you are going to debate, please know what side you are on.

H8130
sânê'
saw-nay'
A primitive root; to hate (personally): - enemy, foe, (be) hate (-ful, -r), odious, X utterly.

And there you have it. HATE FOE ENEMY as it realtes to...a person!!

The greek is over looked only because this is a quote from the OT and must be based on Hebrew. Other wise you would play the same game as you try to pull off in Engish. What more can be said????????

I'm amazed you believe the Bible was originally written in english.

I see you have another strawman in you.

This will only be the 5th time I have posted the words are 1st found in Hebrew. I have asked you to post a Engish Bible to have translation backing. At this point. NOTHING. Is this yet another blank clipboard of yours?

The phrase "yeah, whatever" is a strawman?

This was the last line of the post and as it marked the views you had just given. Nothing but a strawman with no support other then the gnostic gospels.

Plain some grass and cover your lawn with all this straw, and stop wasting your time with changing the Bible.
BLANK Nothing!!!

You're losing it...

This is the only thing you have said right. Yet this too does not place one bit of proof on your ideas and dreams. Do you not think its time you start believing the Bible, and not change it to match your doctrine?

 

[webdog]

The words, "I hate the devil" was not found in the verse. If Joe was to tell somone to.."go to Hell"...would this be looked at as act of love in Gods eyes?

Irrrelevant. This topic is being discussed currently on "a comparison" thread. Feel free to join that.

Right you are. Have I not always said this? You have said God cannot hate. If God hates just one little thing. If it is only paperclips that God hates, then hate is part of His nature. This is but a another strawman replying to this small verse so many times, when in the end you know you must agree that as I said form the start as a opening the my list of verses, that God can hate somethings. Mean time, you will not address the clear and plain verse speaking that He also hate men as it is recorded in the Word.

I never said God doesn't hate. I believe God hates sin. I also believe God sovereignly chooses one individual over another, one nation over another, and even loves some more than others...all proper definitions of sane and miseo.

I see the cherry picking of verses begins...

Psa 5:5
The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

According to how you are using this verse, God hates everyone. Great.

Rev 14:15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

Irrelevant to the topic. Nothing to do with hate.

Rev 14:20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand [and] six hundred furlongs.

Irrelevant to the topic. Nothing to do with hate.

Malachi 1

1The burden of the word of the LORD to Israel by Malachi.

2I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, ASKED>>>>Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob,

I provided a link to another thread this was being discussed on. I see you didn't open it. Helen explained it very well. She stated...
"Now let's go to the verses in Malachi which Paul refers to in Romans:

An oracle: The word of the Lord to Israel through Malachi.
"I have loved you," says the Lord.
"But you ask, 'How have you loved us?'
"Was not Esau Jacob's brother?" the Lord says. "Yet I have loved Jacob, but Esau I have hated, and I have turned his mountains into a wasteland and left his inheritance to the desert jackals."
Edom may say, "though we have been crushed, we will rebuild the ruins."
But this is what the Lord Almighty says:
"They may build, but I will demolish. They will be called the Wicked Land, a people always under the wrath of the Lord. You will see it with your own eyes and say, 'Great is the Lord -- even beyond the borders of Israel!'

Again, two nations are being talked about. And this is what Paul is referring to in Romans. God did not choose to hate the person Esau before his birth. That is NOWHERE indicated in the Bible. There is nothing that shows that after Jacob returned from Laban with his wives and children that Esau was anything but a brother to him. Together they buried their father. In fact, when the land became insufficient for their combined vast flocks, it was Esau who had the grace to move away instead of fighting for 'his' land (Genesis 36:6-8). For those who are not aware, Genesis 36:1 identified Esau as Edom.

In short, again, Bible explains Bible.

A hearty Amen!

No. Problem is...I believe all scripture. You it is clear hates the word hate.

You have a lot of nerve talking about strawmen...

The da Vinci Code is not real Webdog. You are making the same claims as the movie. Your claims sound is if they come right out of the the gnostic gospels as did the movie.

You are denying one funtionality of humanity that Christ possessed. Are you saying physically, Christ was not wired like other human beings? Was He not 100% man? I also never state He DID anything, so your davinci codes comments are unwarranted. He COULD have...He was still sovereign, no?

Yet you call others gnostic??? Do you not understand what this means? If you are going to debate, please know what side you are on.

Clearly you don't, or you would not deny Christ's full humanity. Don't talk down to me, please. If you can't keep this civil by debating Scripture, pulling the "I'm superior in knowledge" tactic is weak.

And there you have it. HATE FOE ENEMY as it realtes to...a person!!

The greek is over looked only because this is a quote from the OT and must be based on Hebrew. Other wise you would play the same game as you try to pull off in Engish. What more can be said????????

Wow, you still continue to hold onto one meaning...the one you like. Did you fail to see "odious" in there, James?
o·di·ous

[SIZE=-1]ADJECTIVE: [/SIZE]

Arousing or meriting strong dislike, aversion, or intense displeasure.

I see you have another strawman in you.

Why not...you have plenty in you

This will only be the 5th time I have posted the words are 1st found in Hebrew. I have asked you to post a Engish Bible to have translation backing. At this point. NOTHING. Is this yet another blank clipboard of yours?

Does it really make a difference? What if all spanish translations translate it something different? Does the english mean it's superior? This is a strawman in itself!

Plain some grass and cover your lawn with all this straw, and stop wasting your time with changing the Bible.
BLANK Nothing!!!

I'm sure you have plenty left over...can I borrow some?

Do you not think its time you start believing the Bible, and not change it to match your doctrine?

Funny, I was about to ask you the same thing!Do you hate your family James? Your father and mother...wife? Holding to your narrow reformed view of a single word, and not the context of where that word fits, you better!

 

[npetreley]

It amazes me the lengths to which people will go to defend God (or more accurately, defend their image of God).