cover ups

[shannonL]

AVL1984,

My sentiments exactly concerning Dr. Messer. I don't know if it was purely poor judgement concerning how he dealt with the Bob Gray matter or not?
I know it was one of the first things he had to deal with when he became pastor there at Trinity.
No matter what the reasoning behind the approach that was taken to handle the situation HOW it was handled lets us get a picture of the character Dr. Messer. How to handle the Gray situation should have been a black and white, slam dunk decision on the part of Dr. Messer.
If I was a member there I would want Messer gone. He wasn't forthright with his people regarding this situation until the beans were already spilled.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Ok, in another thread we were talking about a specific case in which many thought there was a cover-up. But I want this to be about the idea of covering up in general.

I should think that as Christians we would try to cover up a thing as much as possible. I mean we do not need to drag all this stuff out into the open and tell everyone forever what happened. For example, is it a "cover up" if I am not told exactly why the former president of my college resigned recently? And actually why the man before him left as well? What about this stuff going on in Bob Gray's church right now? People are crying "cover up" about that, too.

What if a church leadership deals with a problem Biblically, the sin is confessed and dealt with. Is the leadership required to tell everyone everything from that moment on?

We have a man in our church who was caught in sin years and years ago. It was handled Biblically, he is no longer in the same position he had had before, but he does now have a ministry in our church. Not everyone knows about this. Are we doing a cover up here? I don't think so. I think there is a point where these verses kick in.

Pr 10:12
Hatred stirreth up strifes: but love covereth all sins.
Pr 17:9
He that covereth a transgression seeketh love; but he that repeateth a matter separateth very friends.

Could one use the same logic to support the Catholic cover-up of their paedophile priests in Ireland?

If they dealt with it, why is it anyone else's business?

 

[bapmom]

I think Squire really hit it, when he said that some people are taking the passage about not taking a brother to court out of context.

So these things happen because we are trying to not take a brother to court? As I understood that passage it was more about sueing each other.....but I guess I do know some people who believe that we ought not let the secular courts judge our matters at all.

I think oftentimes they happen also because of another passage I was reading last night.

1Ti 5:19
Against an elder receive not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses.

So if only one witness comes to make a complaint, and there is no other proof or other witnesses, then what is to be done while still obeying this verse?

 

[Squire Robertsson]

Romans 13:1-4

Romans 13

1Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
2Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
3For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: 4For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

And related verses pretty much take the matter out of a church's hands. Most secular jurisdictions have fairly clear and stringent laws on reporting incidents of child molestation. In such cases, its no longer a simple matter of church discipline.

 

[bapmom]

So do you think that that verse about hearing a charge against an elder is really only referring to things which would not be considered a crime? Basically we take it and apply it to everything when it really is talking about an elder not treating you as politely as he should or doing something that perhaps offends you.

 

[donnA]

No where does scripture lead me to believe we are to cover up a crime just because the person is a member of our church.
I take the verse to mean sueing each other, not covering up a crime. If we are to let the church handle it's own matters, wven when illegal, then we have no complaint against the Catholic church for covering up the molestations.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

So do you think that that verse about hearing a charge against an elder is really only referring to things which would not be considered a crime? Basically we take it and apply it to everything when it really is talking about an elder not treating you as politely as he should or doing something that perhaps offends you.

Nope, but I do think at one time a church had a measure discretion in its dealings on certain matters. However, under current law this discretion no longer exists. Especially, it does not exist in these particular kinds of cases. It's like I wrote about the Corinthian passage. Folks take the verses and misinterpert then misapply them. :tear:
At a certain point, you've got to say, "Sorry Brother, but the law requires me to report this matter. It's the pits that the law presumes guilt in these cases. However, that's the way it is." :tear: And then you contribute to his defense fund.