Crazy Pope!!

[Baptist4life]

Pope Francis assures atheists: You don’t have to believe in God to go to heaven




In comments likely to enhance his progressive reputation, Pope Francis has written a long, open letter to the founder of La Repubblica newspaper, Eugenio Scalfari, stating that non-believers would be forgiven by God if they followed their consciences.
:BangHead::BangHead:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...o-believe-in-god-to-go-to-heaven-8810062.html

 

[Tom Bryant]

I am wondering if the college of cardinals knew what he believed or if this is all a surprise and they might just rebel against him.

But I am a baptist and don't understand us, so what would i know about the RCC

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Pope Francis assures atheists: You don’t have to believe in God to go to heaven




In comments likely to enhance his progressive reputation, Pope Francis has written a long, open letter to the founder of La Repubblica newspaper, Eugenio Scalfari, stating that non-believers would be forgiven by God if they followed their consciences.
:BangHead::BangHead:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...o-believe-in-god-to-go-to-heaven-8810062.html

The fact is that this isn't true. It is once again the media purposely misconstruing what the Pope actually said. And to prove my point all you have to do is go back to La Repubblica to see the actual letter.

As for the three questions you asked me in the article of August 7th. It would seem to me that in the first two, what you are most interested in is understanding the Church's attitude towards those who do not share faith in Jesus. First of all, you ask if the God of the Christians forgives those who do not believe and do not seek faith. Given that - and this is fundamental - God's mercy has no limits if he who asks for mercy does so in contrition and with a sincere heart, the issue for those who do not believe in God is in obeying their own conscience. In fact, listening and obeying it, means deciding about what is perceived to be good or to be evil. The goodness or the wickedness of our behavior depends on this decision. - http://www.repubblica.it/cultura/2013/09/11/news/the_pope_s_letter-66336961/

There is nothing in it that leads one to the conclusion the independent made. Once again much ado about nothing.

This is how the Vatican news describes it

Does God forgive non-believers? Does absolute truth exist? And is God merely a creation of the human mind? In a lengthy letter to the former editor of the Italian daily ‘La Repubblica’, Eugenio Scalfari, Pope Francis shares reflections on these three questions and urges all non-believers to engage with Christians in an open and sincere conversation...In the letter published on Wednesday, the Pope laments the impasse that has grown up over the centuries with those who see Christianity as ‘dark and superstitious,’ in opposition to the ‘light of reason’...Responding to the three questions posed by the Italian journalist and writer, the Pope says the key issue for non-believers is that of “obeying their consciences” when faced with choices of good or evil. God’s mercy, he stresses, “has no limits” for those who seek him with a sincere and contrite heart.

This is the actual truth. The English press has always tried to make the Papacy seem more in line with the thinking of the Church of England which I believe is to assuage centuries old need to validate the State run church in England since the declaration of supremacy.

 

[BobRyan]

Think about this subject from the atheist's point of view.

For the atheist - there is "the fact" that Christians and atheists differ on creation, evolution, the existence of God etc.

For the more well-behaved among the atheists there is the desire to view this sort of like belonging to two different civic groups. For them there is no reason to be ugly about the differences. No need to say that so-and-so will burn in hell just because he/she differs with me... belongs to a civic group other than my own, etc.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Yeshua1]

The fact is that this isn't true. It is once again the media purposely misconstruing what the Pope actually said. And to prove my point all you have to do is go back to La Repubblica to see the actual letter. There is nothing in it that leads one to the conclusion the independent made. Once again much ado about nothing.

This is how the Vatican news describes it
This is the actual truth. The English press has always tried to make the Papacy seem more in line with the thinking of the Church of England which I believe is to assuage centuries old need to validate the State run church in England since the declaration of supremacy.

The pope is JUST expanding out salvation thatthe RCC sees God offerring to man thru them, as they broadened God to save all faiths, such as jewish/Muslim, if the persons were of "sincere" faith, and now he just included sinere Athiests, who follow their conscious to do good!

the church views other faiths and now atheists as be able to get saved, as their good works/faith/devotion shows they wouldhave received vcatholic truths if only they knew them!

 

[BobRyan]

I am wondering if the college of cardinals knew what he believed

I am wondering if the college of Cardinals remembers that Pope Clement irrevocably abolished the Jesuit order "forever" in the 1700's.

As Pope Francis said to the Cardinals "may God forgive you for what you have done".

in Christ,

Bob

 

[preacher4truth]

These poor popes.

Since their inception they've preached salvation by Christ alone through faith alone, through Scripture alone and all they've gotten in return is bad press.

 

[Tom Bryant]

These poor popes.

Since their inception they've preached salvation by Christ alone through faith alone, through Scripture alone and all they've gotten in return is bad press.

Are you talking about the catholic popes or is there a preacher named Pope you're talking about? :laugh:

 

[preacher4truth]

Are you talking about the catholic popes or is there a preacher named Pope you're talking about? :laugh:

Well...uh...LOL!!! :laugh: :laugh: :thumbs:

 

[webdog]

The fact is that this isn't true. It is once again the media purposely misconstruing what the Pope actually said. And to prove my point all you have to do is go back to La Repubblica to see the actual letter. There is nothing in it that leads one to the conclusion the independent made. Once again much ado about nothing.

This is how the Vatican news describes it
This is the actual truth. The English press has always tried to make the Papacy seem more in line with the thinking of the Church of England which I believe is to assuage centuries old need to validate the State run church in England since the declaration of supremacy.

On 9/11 nineteen men followed their conscience and approached their god with a contrite heart, to the point of giving their lives. According to Francis, God saved them.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

On 9/11 nineteen men followed their conscience and approached their god with a contrite heart, to the point of giving their lives. According to Francis, God saved them.

You are grossly incorrect once again. On 9/11 nineteen men arrogantly killed without remorse thousands of people expecting sex in the After life. According to Francis they didn't follow their God given conscience (or seared it to the point that they no longer have one) and thus never asked forgiveness of God thus never receiving forgiveness. Which according to Catholic teaching only has one result: dying in mortal sin which leads only to one place. Hell. There was nothing contrite about those terrorist.

Stop believing the false media hype. I've already shown that they misconstrued what Pope Francis actually said.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

The pope is JUST expanding out salvation thatthe RCC sees God offerring to man thru them, as they broadened God to save all faiths, such as jewish/Muslim, if the persons were of "sincere" faith, and now he just included sinere Athiests, who follow their conscious to do good!

the church views other faiths and now atheists as be able to get saved, as their good works/faith/devotion shows they wouldhave received vcatholic truths if only they knew them!

When you actually know what you are talking about when it comes to this subject then maybe you might have something to say.

Don't forget the Catholic teaching "extra ecclesiam nulla salus". Which has nothing to do with works.

 

[webdog]

You are grossly incorrect once again. On 9/11 nineteen men arrogantly killed without remorse thousands of people expecting sex in the After life. According to Francis they didn't follow their God given conscience (or seared it to the point that they no longer have one) and thus never asked forgiveness of God thus never receiving forgiveness. Which according to Catholic teaching only has one result: dying in mortal sin which leads only to one place. Hell. There was nothing contrite about those terrorist.

Stop believing the false media hype. I've already shown that they misconstrued what Pope Francis actually said.

I disagree. They sincerely believed their god would be pleased by their actions. The murder of innocents was irrelevant to them as they believed they were doing gods work.

Conscience doesn't save.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

I disagree. They sincerely believed their god would be pleased by their actions. The murder of innocents was irrelevant to them as they believed they were doing gods work.

Conscience doesn't save.

Neither I nor Pope Francis ever said conscience saves. What he said is its important for People who don't have faith to live by their conscience. I would agree. He never said they were saved.

 

[steaver]

I disagree. They sincerely believed their god would be pleased by their actions. The murder of innocents was irrelevant to them as they believed they were doing gods work.

Conscience doesn't save.

And they believe that anyone who is not Muslim is guilty before their god, there is no innocent outside of Islam in their mindset. Men, women, children, it matters not to them.

 

[webdog]

Neither I nor Pope Francis ever said conscience saves. What he said is its important for People who don't have faith to live by their conscience. I would agree. He never said they were saved.

An unregenerate man living by their conscience is still an unregenerate man. This pope is clearly a universalist.

 

[Melanie]

Well....surely you are not surprised!!! :laugh:

 

[Thinkingstuff]

An unregenerate man living by their conscience is still an unregenerate man. This pope is clearly a universalist.

I think you are confused a universalist believes everyone will go to heaven. The Pope isn't a Quaker. However, the Pope is saying what Paul said in Romans 2:14-15 14 "For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them."

 

[webdog]

I think you are confused a universalist believes everyone will go to heaven. The Pope isn't a Quaker. However, the Pope is saying what Paul said in Romans 2:14-15 14 "For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them."

Maybe its a matter of vantage point, but I don't see any of that in his overtly nebulous and deliberately non offensive statements to please everyone. The gospel offends. His salvation model is not the gospel. Put your associations aside and be objective. Catholics go so out of their way to tell us what these men 'really meant' it becomes quite sad. When my pastor says something not aligning with Gods Word or another prominent biblical pastor, I call them out on it. I don't try to defend the indefensible. The pope has always been vague concerning Christ and the cross.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Maybe its a matter of vantage point, but I don't see any of that in his overtly nebulous and deliberately non offensive statements to please everyone. The gospel offends. His salvation model is not the gospel. Put your associations aside and be objective. Catholics go so out of their way to tell us what these men 'really meant' it becomes quite sad. When my pastor says something not aligning with Gods Word or another prominent biblical pastor, I call them out on it. I don't try to defend the indefensible. The pope has always been vague concerning Christ and the cross.

To add to this, he is the NEW Pope so many had high hopes that he would actively work to straighten out things that are giving the RCC a bad name around the world, but now we are finding that his MO is to soft pettel important issues.