savedbymercy
New Member
the bib
No you are, and evasive !
What is it in brief as possible ?
No you are, and evasive !
What is it in brief as possible ?
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Created unto Good Works and not because of !
- Thread starter savedbymercy
- Start date
Apparently you cannot read, or do not read, or have terrible reading comprehension. I answered that question briefly in my last post! Go read it again!
savedbymercy
New Member
What is it in brief as possible ?
We all know your routine! This is how you avoid dealing with objections - you simply ignore, deny, deflect the objections by demanding everyone return to your theme song! I wll not go down this absurd line of reasonng with you as it is thoroughly dishonest by nature and reveals your true character. I answered you - go read it!
The above post directly attacks, destroys and exposes the error of SBM's OP that to claim to be saved due to faith is a soteriology by works.
He can't answer my responses above and WILL NOT. He will ignore them and do what he always does to evidence he cannot deal with - simply repeat his errors and assert he is right and everyone else is wrong! That is the limit of his mentality!
savedbymercy
New Member
the bib
You still have not answered me and let me know what is the point of the OP ! What are U waiting on ?
You still have not answered me and let me know what is the point of the OP ! What are U waiting on ?
Can't you read English? I have now answered it three times since you asked! Just go back and read posts 14, 17 and 25. Indeed, my first post where I dealt with the first text in your OP (Eph. 2:10) is a complete rebuttal of the very essence of your OP. Why play this lying game? I will tell you why. Because you cannot respond to my posts.
So the conclusion is this, If we claim to be saved because of our Faith or our act of Believing, them we claim salvation by our good works instead of the biblical Truth of Salvation unto Good Works. - SMB
Here is the essence of your OP in your own words.
Your little silly game is to have everyone go back to your post while you can ignore the objections against your post and simply continue to reassert your stupid posts! BE HONEST and respond to the objections!
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Now respond to the above objections to your OP!
Eph. 4:18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
Ephesians 4:18 is descriptive of the Spiritual dead condition as one "alienated form the life of God" and what is inclusive of that condition.
To "quicken" is to make alive something that is dead. In regard to physically alive human beings to be "quickened" (Eph. 2:1) refers to their SPIRITUAL STATUS as "dead in tresspasses and sins."
What does that mean - "dead in tresspasses and sins"? It cannot mean they are PHYSICALLY dead in tresspasses and sins or that they are ANIHILATED in tresspasses and sins.
The key here is the proper understanding of the term "dead" in relationship to "tresspasses and sins." The term "dead" in this context simply means "separated" or "alienated."
Tresspasses and sins SEPARATE a physically alive person from God:
Isa. 59:2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.
However, it is more than that! It is a CONDITION of the heart:
Eph. 4:18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
It is a condition of "blindness of...heart" and "understanding darkened" and "ignorance that is in them." This is the NATURAL condition by NATURAL birth as that is where the NATURAL condition of man originates with, their NATURAL birth. That is precisely why the new birth/quickening or SUPERnatural birth is placed in direct contrast to natural birth (Jn. 3:3, 6). Paul contrasts only TWO possible conditions (1) in the flesh - Rom. 8:7-8 versus (2) in the Spirit - vv. 9-10
Thus quickening is the reversal of this NATURAL state of "understanding darkened....ignorance...blindness of heart" and is also described as a "REVELATION" and ENLIGHTENMENT that removes this DARKNESS
"flesh and blood hath not REVEALED this unto thee but my Father in heaven" - Mt. 16:17
"When it pleased God who separated me from my mothers womb...to REVEAL His son in me" - Gal. 1:16
This divine REVELATION reverses the "understanding darkened....ignorance in them.......blindness of heart" and thus reverses "alienation of the life of God" as Paul explicitly states it is this "darkened....ignorance....blindness" that "alienates them from the life of God."
Therefore, "in tresspasses and sins" is EQUAL to being "darkened...ignorance....blindness" and therefore being "dead" equals "being alienated from the life of God." Do you get this defintion?
Thus quickening is reversal of the "darkened.....ignorance....blindness heart" as it is that condition that "alienates them from the life of God.
Hence, divine quickening IS Divine revelation or enlightenment as opposed to "darkness" and "ignorance" and "blindness."
Quickening removes "darkness" and thus quickening is inclusive of ENLIGTENMENT.
Quickening removes "ignorance" and thus quickening is REVELATION
Quickening removes "blindness" and thus quickening is INTERNAL SIGHT or REVELATION
2 Cor. 4:6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
In Genesis 1:3 God by THE WORD OF COMMAND spoke light into existence. Likewise, divine quickening is God by the WORD OF COMMAND speaking the "light of knowledge" which removes "darkened.....ignorance.......blindness" within man.
This is why Paul uses the Greek term rhema rather than logos in Romans 10:17
"For faith cometh by hearing and hearing by RHEMA [the word of command] of God."
This is why Jesus says that faith is "the work of God" (Jn. 6:29) and that Christ is both the "author and the finisher of faith" (Heb. 12:2). This is why the ability to move from unbelief (Jn. 6:64) to belief must be "given" by the Father (Jn. 6:65). This is why EVERYONE whom the Father "draws" does "come" to Christ (Jn. 6:44-45) because divine quickening is being "CREATED IN CHRIST JESUS" which is impossible apart from faith.
This is why the phrase in Ephesians 2:8 "for by grace are ye saved through faith" is the same thing as "For we are his workmanship created in Christ Jesus" and is a gift of God and not of works.
The perfect tense "saved" in Ephesians 2:8 refers to a completed point of action in the past which continues as a completed state. That completed point of action in the past occurred "THROUGH FAITH" not APART FROM faith and thus "faith" is inseparable from the act of quickening or being "created in Christ Jesus."
The Hardshell superlapsarian is wrong because there is no such thing as a quickened unbeliever and the Arminian is wrong as there is no such thing as a unquickened believer as quickening is INCLUSIVE of faith.
Yes, faith is LOGICALLY subsequent as the hole is subequent to the bullet but there is no chronological order as both are simeltaneous in real time. Bottom line, the new birth is not of the will of man (Jn. 1:13) but of God and the new birth is INCLUSIVE of and the CREATION of a new BELIEVING HEART by God (Ezek. 36:26; Jer. 31:34) not another heart of unbelief. The new heart IS KNOWING GOD (Jer. 31:34) and thus being "created in Christ Jesus" (Eph. 2:10) does not refer to eternity past but to divine quickening (Eph. 2:1,5,8,10) which is the refersal of the alienated from the life of God condition described in Ephesian 4:18 where "ignorance" is replaced by knowledge, and darkness is replaced by light and blindness is replaced by sight. Hence, to be born of God is inclusive of being "given" (Jn. 6:65) a BELEIVING NEW HEART. SBM's position is that God gives another heart of unbelief as he denies
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savedbymercy
New Member
the bib
Yes, so please tell me what the main point of my OP is in english !
Yes, so please tell me what the main point of my OP is in english !
You two faced lying hypocrit, I have spelled it out four times now (posts #14,17,25,27) and in the post #27 I quoted your own words verbatim in red bold print so that you could not possibly misunderstand it!
savedbymercy
New Member
the bib
Name calling will not help you, go to the OP and outline very carefully each point I made and if you can, show how each point and my conclusions are wrong !
Name calling will not help you, go to the OP and outline very carefully each point I made and if you can, show how each point and my conclusions are wrong !
You should be removed from this forum as you are a totally dishonest person and YOU KNOW YOU ARE! You asked me to summarize you OP and I did FOUR times and the last time I quoted verbatim your OWN CONCLUSION to your OP. My several posts address that very point of your conclusion and repudiate it.
YOU CANNOT RESPOND to the objections to your OP and so you lie, and simply play this two faced hypocritical dishonest game of words.
The fact you will not provide any kind of salvation testimony harmonizes with your character as one who is deceitful and dishonest.
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So the conclusion is this, If we claim to be saved because of our Faith or our act of Believing, them we claim salvation by our good works instead of the biblical Truth of Salvation unto Good Works. - SMB
Here is your own conclusion to your OP that makes it unmistakable what your OP attempts to prove and that is anyone who claims they are saved by gospel "faith" is teaching works.
You opened your OP with a quote from Ephesians 2:10b. My posts addressed this conclusion of your OP and specifically addressed Ephesians 2:10 and that specific quote as it is your FIRST text you give to support your case.
My posts have totally repudiated your interpretation of that text. You have refused to address the evidence I have given over and over again concerning that text Instead you have played the hypocritical game of replaying your OP instead of answering the objections to your OP.
what He cannot answer is that a Christian ONLY can claim to be such by having the person the Holy spirit residing within them...
If one does not reeceive Christ by faith, how does he get His Spriit instead/what other way?
I am afraid you have opened a door for escape for him instead of boxing him in.
Rather, what he cannot answer is that saving faith is inclusive of the new birth in an immediate cause and effect relationship. Please go to my thread on the "Anatomy of divine quickening" and read my last post.
But isn't the truth that without one placing faith in/receivng jesus by faith, there is NO Spriit residing within them though? Direct cause/effect?
That is true! However, faith is the effect not the cause as "darkened" understanding and "blindness of heart" are the cause of being alienated from the life of God "through ignorance that is in them" (consequence) and only a contrary cause (revelation and light of knowledge) can reverse that consequence removing "ignorance" with "faith."
So the cause is the quickening by the Holy spirit within/upon sinners, that effects into 'saving faith?"
It is a little more complicated than that because faith is INCLUSIVE in divine quickening rather than the consequence of divine quickening. In other words, saving faith is inseparable from divine quickening so that divine quickening cannot exist apart from saving faith as it is inclusive of saving faith. That is why we are saved "THROUGH FAITH" (Eph. 2:8) and by "saved" Paul is referring contextually to the act of quickening (vv. 1,6). The fact that "saved" is found in the perfect tense demanding a completed action at a specific point in the past that continues to be a completed act demonstrates "through faith" occurred at the same point in time and is therefore inseparable from that completed action. That completed action is just previous to verse 8 defined as quickening - v. 6.
Within the act of divine quickening by the Holy Spirit there are two inseparable constituent aspects that are found in a cause versus effect relationship that as a whole completes the act.
This is because God uses the gospel which by the creative power of God is "mixed" with faith within the hearer (Heb. 2:2; 1 Thes. 1:5). The Gospel empowered by the Holy Spirit produces this mixture of faith with the gospel within the elect. In effect, the gospel when empowered by the Spirit becomes the CREATIVE WORD OF COMMAND so that revelation and knowledge place them in Christ Jesus (Eph. 2:10a) or that mixture effects spiritual union with God thus reversing the previous condition of being "alienated from the life of God through ignorance."
Furthermore, this two aspect content of quickening which removes darkness and bllindness and ignorance by revelation, light and knowledge of Jesus Christ is described also as a washing and renewing in its removal of the negative (darkened, blindness, ignorance) and replacement by the postiive (revelation, light, knowledge) - Tit. 3:5; Col. 3:10; Ephes. 4:24 thus restoring the "image" of God that was lost in the fall.
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