Creating your Own Doctrine

[Van]

One of the tactics of false teachers is to make claims not based on specific statements contextually considered, but on undefined statements. For example, say I claim God put invisible pink elephants in orbit around Mars. You say show me the evidence.

I say "all things are possible with God." Then I attack, by saying by your denial that God did not put them in orbit, you are diminishing the divine attributes of God, and you deny God is sovereign and does as He pleases.

Take, "No one seeks after God." Does this mean no one ever, at any time, while unregenerate seeks God? Nope. But if you offer a more limited meaning, based on context, then some might say "you are adding to scripture." Never mind they did, claiming their interpretation is what it says, and any other view adds to scripture.

What is a way or method for finding the intended scope of "open ended" statements, rather than claiming everything imaginable is intended?

Ask the question, What is the least that God could be stating. No one seeks God some all the time? No one seeks God at any time? No one seeks God when they are sinning?. The context of Romans 3 indicates the idea is when a person is sinning, they are not seeking God. Thus Paul uses the fact that we do not seek God all of the time to prove we are all under sin.

There are many examples of the use of the bogus ploy, such as God would not destroy people in Gehenna because God is love. Overshooting the bounds of open ended statements can lead us into false doctrine. A sound bible study practice is to be a minimalists, being careful not to add to scripture by expanding the scope beyond its intent.

 

[Van]

Ask the question, "What is the least that God could be stating? Try it, you will like it.

To answer the question, the context must be evaluated.

 

[37818]

Proverbs 30:5-6, Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

 

[Van]

Proverbs 30:5-6
Every word of God is refined;
He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him.
Do not add to His words
Or He will rebuke you, and you will be proved a liar.

Thus asking what is the least God could be stating is a key to contextual understanding. The idea that every word of God is refined is that it has been separated from the dross, thus conveys the message and should not be disregarded or altered.

 

[canadyjd]

…..
Take, "No one seeks after God." Does this mean no one ever, at any time, while unregenerate seeks God? Nope….

Ask the question, What is the least that God could be stating. No one seeks God some all the time? No one seeks God at any time? No one seeks God when they are sinning?. The context of Romans 3 indicates the idea is when a person is sinning, they are not seeking God

Two thousand years of Christianity disagrees with you.

The context of Romans 3, and much of the rest of Romans, is that all of humanity are under condemnation for sin, they serve sin as a master, they are thoroughly unable to seek God and yet need a Savior.

Romans means what it says. None seek God, no not even one, they have all rejected God and serve the creature rather than the Creator. This is a statement of absolute truth that applies to every person

To qualify such absolute statements of truth by adding “while they are sinning” completely undermines Paul’s argument and God’s Word.

Yes, you added to scripture to make it fit your errant beliefs.

Now, go claim I’m attacking you personally for pointing out your error.

peace to you

 

[MrW]

One of the tactics of false teachers is to make claims not based on specific statements contextually considered, but on undefined statements. For example, say I claim God put invisible pink elephants in orbit around Mars. You say show me the evidence.

I say "all things are possible with God." Then I attack, by saying by your denial that God did not put them in orbit, you are diminishing the divine attributes of God, and you deny God is sovereign and does as He pleases.

Take, "No one seeks after God." Does this mean no one ever, at any time, while unregenerate seeks God? Nope. But if you offer a more limited meaning, based on context, then some might say "you are adding to scripture." Never mind they did, claiming their interpretation is what it says, and any other view adds to scripture.

What is a way or method for finding the intended scope of "open ended" statements, rather than claiming everything imaginable is intended?

Ask the question, What is the least that God could be stating. No one seeks God some all the time? No one seeks God at any time? No one seeks God when they are sinning?. The context of Romans 3 indicates the idea is when a person is sinning, they are not seeking God. Thus Paul uses the fact that we do not seek God all of the time to prove we are all under sin.

There are many examples of the use of the bogus ploy, such as God would not destroy people in Gehenna because God is love. Overshooting the bounds of open ended statements can lead us into false doctrine. A sound bible study practice is to be a minimalists, being careful not to add to scripture by expanding the scope beyond its intent.

“You shall seek Me and find Me when you seek Me with all your heart.”

“There is none that seeketh after God…”

Paul quoted Isaiah. Isaiah and Paul both appear to have been speaking specifically of Israel.

 

[Van]

“You shall seek Me and find Me when you seek Me with all your heart.”

“There is none that seeketh after God…”

Paul quoted Isaiah. Isaiah and Paul both appear to have been speaking specifically of Israel.

As I have posted many times, "There is none that seeketh after God when sinning. Thus the statement does not suggest no lost person ever seeks God while lost. It is adding to scripture to expand the reach of a statement beyond its intent. Paul was arguing that we are all under sin, that we all have fallen short of the glory of God, not that most of the lost (soils 2, 3, and 4) are able to seek God some of the time.

 

[canadyjd]

As I have posted many times, "There is none that seeketh after God when sinning. Thus the statement does not suggest no lost person ever seeks God while lost…..

No matter how many times you post it, it remains error because you are literally adding words to the text to make it conform to your errant beliefs.

Just believe what scripture says, you will find peace and happiness.

peace to you

 

[kyredneck]

Take, "No one seeks after God." Does this mean no one ever, at any time, while unregenerate seeks God? Nope.

Yep. That's what it means. The natural man, void of the Spirit, never ever desires the things of the Spirit of God.

14 Now the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him; and he cannot know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 1 Cor 2

 

[Van]

Yep. That's what it means. The natural man, void of the Spirit, never ever desires the things of the Spirit of God.

14 Now the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him; and he cannot know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 1 Cor 2

LOL, some deny they added to Romans 3:11, by pointing to their addition to 1 Corinthians 2:14. I kid you not!!!

Folks, the house of cards of "Total Spiritual Inability" comes tumbling down with just a smidgen of contextual study. Romans 3:11 does not say the lost do not ever seek God, and 1 Cor. 2:14 does not say the lost cannot understand all of the things of the Spirit of God.

 

[Van]

As I have posted many times, "There is none that seeketh after God when sinning. Thus the statement does not suggest no lost person ever seeks God while lost. It is adding to scripture to expand the reach of a statement beyond its intent. Paul was arguing that we are all under sin, that we all have fallen short of the glory of God, not that most of the lost (soils 2, 3, and 4) are able to seek God some of the time.

Paul spoke to new Christians as he spoke to the lost, using spiritual milk to they could understand. See 1 Corinthians 3:1-3. Therefore the lost cannot understand spiritual solid food (meat) but can understand spiritual milk, the fundamentals of the gospel.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Take, "No one seeks after God." Does this mean no one ever, at any time, while unregenerate seeks God?

It means, no one seeks after God. If you change it to mean "some people do seek after God," you are making Scripture some sort of verbal blancmange.

 

[Van]

It means, no one seeks after God. If you change it to mean "some people do seek after God," you are making Scripture some sort of verbal blancmange.

If you change it to no one ever seeks after God, you are making Scripture some sort of man-made concoction that feeds fleshly desired (vindication) but provides no nourishment.

Scripture says a few find, but many seek the way to eternal life. Your unstudied doctrine nullifies all such verses. But if you would ask, what is the least this verse (Romans 3:11) is saying, truth jumps off the page! No one seeks God all the time because we all have turned aside into sin, and we are not seeking God when sinning.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

If you change it to no one ever seeks after God, you are making Scripture some sort of man-made concoction that feeds fleshly desired (vindication) but provides no nourishment.

Scripture says a few find, but many seek the way to eternal life. Your unstudied doctrine nullifies all such verses. But if you would ask, what is the least this verse (Romans 3:11) is saying, truth jumps off the page! No one seeks God all the time because we all have turned aside into sin, and we are not seeking God when sinning.

The text reads, 'There is none who seeks after God.' It is you who has decided that you don't like the verse as it is written, and have taken it upon yourself to try and change it to make it mean what it does not say, and suggest that sometime people do seek God.
Let me put it another way. Lazarus is dead. He's been in his tomb four days. It is no use his sisters coming weeping to his tomb and imploring him to come out. Nor will it help for his friends to come and tell him how much more fun he would have if he were alive. Nor will a preacher do any good warning him of the severe consequences of being dead. He's dead, you see, and he can't hear them. And there's another problem: Lazarus is a bit of a stinker (John 11:39). He's dead in trespasses and sins; he doesn't deserve to come to life (Ephesians 2:1-3).
But when the Lord Jesus Christ, in the fullness of His power and mercy, comes and calls, "Lazarus, come forth!" It is then that Lazarus will receive new life, hear, and obey the Divine summons.

'Long my imprisoned spirit lay
Fast bound in sin and nature's night.
Thine eye diffused a quickening ray;
I woke, the dungeon flamed with light.
My chains fell off, my heart was free;
I rose, went forth and followed Thee.' Charles Wesley

The new birth is (John 1:13)
'Not of blood.' Being born into a Christian family is great, but it can't save you.
'Nor of the will of the flesh.' Your own fallen will or intellect cannot help you.
'Nor of the will of man.' It is not in the urgings of the preacher, nor in the incantations of the priest, nor the ministry of the social worker
'But of God.' "Salvation belongs to our God who sits upon the throne, and to the Lamb" (Revelation 7:10).

 

[Van]

The text reads, 'There is none who seeks after God.' It is you who has decided that you don't like the verse as it is written, and have taken it upon yourself to try and change it to make it mean what it does not say, and suggest that sometime people do seek God.

Once again, this post falsely claims he is a mind reader, knowing what I have decided, such as I do not like Romans 3:11 as written. I like it just fine, so the false claim just demonstrates a pattern of deceit.

I did not change one word, there is none that seek God. This poster claim it means there is not that ever seeks God, a false and unstudied claim as many seek to find the path to eternal life.

Will this poster once again refuse to explain how so many verses support that some of the lost sometimes seek God some of the time? Or will he once again change the subject to a non-germane passage? Wait and see!

 

[canadyjd]

@Van, you change the meaning of the verse “no one seeks God, not even one” when you add the words “while they are sinning.”

The very big problem you have is that when you change this verse to fit your beliefs, you are forced to change many other verses to reconcile the passages.

You are literally rewriting the Bible with every thread with the theme, “let’s change the meaning of this passage.

How many have you done? Dozens?

Wouldn’t it be easier to change your beliefs in the Light of God’s Word?

Peace to you

 

[Van]

@Van, you change the meaning of the verse “no one seeks God, not even one” when you add the words “while they are sinning.”

The very big problem you have is that when you change this verse to fit your beliefs, you are forced to change many other verses to reconcile the passages.

You are literally rewriting the Bible with every thread with the theme, “let’s change the meaning of this passage.

How many have you done? Dozens?

Wouldn’t it be easier to change your beliefs in the Light of God’s Word?

Peace to you

I did not change the meaning or any inspired word or phrase in the text. That charge is blatantly false and vile.
You add, "ever" to the phrase "no one ever seeks God, not even one."

Next you charge me with creating conflict with unspecified other verses.

You charge me with what your dark age doctrine does! Typical behavior of propagandists.

The topic is not me, but the tactics of false teaches as enumerated in the OP.

Saying no one ever seeks God creates conflict with Romans 9:30-33 or that many seek to find the narrow way that leads to eternal life, Luke 13:24

 

[JD731]

One of the tactics of false teachers is to make claims not based on specific statements contextually considered, but on undefined statements. For example, say I claim God put invisible pink elephants in orbit around Mars. You say show me the evidence.

I say "all things are possible with God." Then I attack, by saying by your denial that God did not put them in orbit, you are diminishing the divine attributes of God, and you deny God is sovereign and does as He pleases.

Take, "No one seeks after God." Does this mean no one ever, at any time, while unregenerate seeks God? Nope. But if you offer a more limited meaning, based on context, then some might say "you are adding to scripture." Never mind they did, claiming their interpretation is what it says, and any other view adds to scripture.

What is a way or method for finding the intended scope of "open ended" statements, rather than claiming everything imaginable is intended?

Ask the question, What is the least that God could be stating. No one seeks God some all the time? No one seeks God at any time? No one seeks God when they are sinning?. The context of Romans 3 indicates the idea is when a person is sinning, they are not seeking God. Thus Paul uses the fact that we do not seek God all of the time to prove we are all under sin.

There are many examples of the use of the bogus ploy, such as God would not destroy people in Gehenna because God is love. Overshooting the bounds of open ended statements can lead us into false doctrine. A sound bible study practice is to be a minimalists, being careful not to add to scripture by expanding the scope beyond its intent.

The definitive statement on seeking God is in the King James Bible. If your Bible leaves you wondering about the answer after reading it, you either have a bad Bible or you are willfully blind or you are a plain unbeliever and a denier of truth.

Acts 17:22 Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars' hill, and said, Ye men of Athens, I perceive that in all things ye are too superstitious.
23 For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, To The Unknown God. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.
24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;

27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:

28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

That is all that really needs to be said.

 

[canadyjd]

I did not change the meaning or any inspired word or phrase in the text. That charge is blatantly false and vile.
You add, "ever" to the phrase "no one ever seeks God, not even one."

Next you charge me with creating conflict with unspecified other verses.

You charge me with what your dark age doctrine does! Typical behavior of propagandists.

The topic is not me, but the tactics of false teaches as enumerated in the OP.

Saying no one ever seeks God creates conflict with Romans 9:30-33 or that many seek to find the narrow way that leads to eternal life, Luke 13:24

You did change the meaning by adding to the plain reading “none seek God, not even one” the words “while they are sinning”.

The only conflict is in your mind because you refuse to accept the clear teaching of scripture.

Your denial is a falsehood. Your personal attacks are falsehoods.

peace to you

 

[Van]

You did change the meaning by adding to the plain reading “none seek God, not even one” the words “while they are sinning”.

The only conflict is in your mind because you refuse to accept the clear teaching of scripture.
Your denial is a falsehood. Your personal attacks are falsehoods.
peace to you

Good Grief, your "plain meaning" becomes "my addition."
You add "ever" but that is not an addition, its the plain meaning. I add "when sinning" and that is an addition, rather than the plain contexual meaning.