Creating Your Own God

[SovereignGrace]

Yes, indeed. And one of the false doctrines being promulgated is that the condemned will not suffer eternal torment.

Notice how he does a duck, dodge, & hide when asked this, twice? He will not answer it, so there’s only one thing to conclude. He still holds to it, unless he answers it and states he’s changed his position. Heretics love calling others heretics while promulgating their heresies.

 

[canadyjd]

Not Paul's point (which is no one seeks God while sinning, thus we are all under sin) but true nevertheless, no one seeks God without God's general revelation, as His divine attributes are revealed in what He has made.

And according to that passage in Romans, ALL rejected that general revelation found in nature and none sought God, leaving them without excuse.

What you are saying directly contradicts Romans 3.

peace to you

 

[Yeshua1]

The issue is does no one ever, at any time, seek God, as do the people of Matthew 23:13? The biblical answer is some people some of the time do seek God.

Jesus and Paul both disagree with you, as did Isaiah!

 

[Van]

Another tactic of false teachers is to make up their own unbiblical theology and then treat the Scripture as a sort of wax nose and pummel it into what they want it to say. So that, for example, 'There is no one who seeks after God' becomes, "There are not very many who seek after God," and to mangle verses like Matthew 23:13 wretchedly to support their position.

Yet another Calvinist "taint so" post. The OP must have struck close to home...
Questions:
1) In order to read false doctrine into scripture, do you ignore other verses that conflict with your fictional doctrine? Yes
2) In order to defend false doctrine, do you change the subject to claimed bad behavior of the messengers of truth. Yes
3) Should we fear God because He can destroy both the body and soul in Gehenna? Yes
4) Are the people entering the kingdom in Matthew 23:13 seeking God at that time? Yes
5) Is expanding the scope and extent of open ended statements necessary to pour false doctrine into scripture? Yes

Our best approach to avoid accepting false doctrine is to study scripture and accept doctrine consistent with all scripture. Ask what is the least God is saying when evaluating open ended statements. Does God can destroy both body and soul mean God does destroy body and soul, instantaneously when people are tossed into the lake of fire? Nope. Only that God could if He chose, but the verse does not say He chooses to take that action. We need to read scripture carefully, prayerfully and thoughtfully.

 

[Van]

Jesus and Paul both disagree with you, as did Isaiah!

The Calvinist parade of "taint so, taint so and Van is bad for saying so..." continues endlessly.

The issue is does no one ever, at any time, seek God, as do the people of Matthew 23:13? The biblical answer is some people some of the time do seek God but not when sinning.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Yet another Calvinist "taint so" post. The OP must have struck close to home...

I sometimes fear that someone might believe your crackpot posts. That is the only reason I ever reply to you/

Questions:
1) In order to read false doctrine into scripture, do you ignore other verses that conflict with your fictional doctrine? Yes

In order to read false doctrine into scripture, do you ignore other verses that conflict with your fictional doctrine? Yes

2) In order to defend false doctrine, do you change the subject to claimed bad behavior of the messengers of truth. Yes

In order to defend false doctrine, do you change the subject to claimed bad behavior of the messengers of truth. Yes

3) Should we fear God because He can destroy both the body and soul in Gehenna? Yes

If you actually read my posts instead of immediately uttering your Pavlovian "'Taint so!" bleat, you might have noticed that I did not address this point.

4) Are the people entering the kingdom in Matthew 23:13 seeking God at that time? Yes

Are the people entering the kingdom in Matthew 23:13 seeking God at that time? Yes. And if they are genuinely seeking Him they will find Him (Deuteronomy 4:29; Matthew 7:8) and those preventing them will not succeed otherwise the scribes and Pharisees rule over Christ (contra Matthew 16:18; Revelation 3:7) . To see Matthew 23:13 in practice, you need only read John 9, where the Jewish leaders expel the man born blind from the Temple, but they cannot stop him from coming to Christ.

5) Is expanding the scope and extent of open ended statements necessary to pour false doctrine into scripture? Yes

Is denying the plain meaning of Scripture necessary to pour false doctrine into Scripture? It is for you.

Our best approach to avoid accepting false doctrine is to study scripture and accept doctrine consistent with all scripture. Ask what is the least God is saying when evaluating open ended statements.

Our best approach to avoid accepting false doctrine is to study scripture without imposing ones own crackpot theology onto it; to avoid taking certain texts like Matthew 23:13 and 2 Thessalonians 2:13, misunderstanding them completely and then bouncing up and down on them like a trampoline; and to compare Scripture with Scripture, interpreting difficult passages by easier ones since Scripture cannot contradict itself

 

[Van]

I sometimes fear that someone might believe
SNIP

Our best approach to avoid accepting false doctrine is to study scripture without imposing ones own crackpot theology... SNIP... and to compare Scripture with Scripture, interpreting difficult passages by easier ones since Scripture cannot contradict itself

Lets see:
1) Your crackpot posts... Insult
2) You post to say "taint so"... disinformation
3) Martin says I am the one posting "taint so bleats"... No that would be numerous Calvinists
4) Jesus said the people of Matthew 23:13 were "entering the kingdom" but Martin asks "if they were genuinely seeking Him." That is like says the soldiers landing on Normandy were not seeking to defeat Hitler.
5) Matthew 23:13 says the people were prevented from entering. It does not say that action "overruled" Christ. More adding to scripture to defend adding to scripture...
6) Next the expansions of the actual message are characterized as "denying the plain meaning." No, the expansions deny the plain meaning.
7) Yes the best way to study scripture is not to impose our presumptive views.
8) Yes false teachers bounce up and down on their pet vague and ambiguous verses to support their false doctrine.
9) Yes scripture, properly understood does not contradict other passages. For example, if scripture teaches some people seek God, to claim another scripture teaches taint so, is "crackpot theology."

Our best approach to avoid accepting false doctrine is to study scripture and accept doctrine consistent with all scripture. Ask what is the least God is saying when evaluating open ended statements. Does God can destroy both body and soul mean God does destroy body and soul, instantaneously when people are tossed into the lake of fire? Nope. Only that God could if He chose, but the verse does not say He chooses to take that action. We need to read scripture carefully, prayerfully and thoughtfully.

 

[RipponRedeaux]

Our best approach to avoid accepting false doctrine is to study scripture and accept doctrine consistent with all scripture. Ask what is the least God is saying when evaluating open ended statements. Does God can [sic] destroy both body and soul mean God does destroy body and soul, instantaneously when people are tossed into the lake of fire? Nope. Only that God could if He chose, but the verse does not say He chooses to take that action. We need to read scripture carefully, prayerfully and thoughtfully.

You apparently hold to the same false doctrine you espoused years ago on the BB. You don't think someone who is condemned to Perdition is annihilated immediately, but in a period of time. That's similar to Roman Catholics who think that people spend a set period of time in Purgatory. They, of course think that after that set piece of time they will go to glory. You think that the condemned will suffer for a time and then cease to exist --which I and every Bible believing Christian denies with vigor.

 

[Yeshua1]

Lets see:
1) Your crackpot posts... Insult
2) You post to say "taint so"... disinformation
3) Martin says I am the one posting "taint so bleats"... No that would be numerous Calvinists
4) Jesus said the people of Matthew 23:13 were "entering the kingdom" but Martin asks "if they were genuinely seeking Him." That is like says the soldiers landing on Normandy were not seeking to defeat Hitler.
5) Matthew 23:13 says the people were prevented from entering. It does not say that action "overruled" Christ. More adding to scripture to defend adding to scripture...
6) Next the expansions of the actual message are characterized as "denying the plain meaning." No, the expansions deny the plain meaning.
7) Yes the best way to study scripture is not to impose our presumptive views.
8) Yes false teachers bounce up and down on their pet vague and ambiguous verses to support their false doctrine.
9) Yes scripture, properly understood does not contradict other passages. For example, if scripture teaches some people seek God, to claim another scripture teaches taint so, is "crackpot theology."

Our best approach to avoid accepting false doctrine is to study scripture and accept doctrine consistent with all scripture. Ask what is the least God is saying when evaluating open ended statements. Does God can destroy both body and soul mean God does destroy body and soul, instantaneously when people are tossed into the lake of fire? Nope. Only that God could if He chose, but the verse does not say He chooses to take that action. We need to read scripture carefully, prayerfully and thoughtfully.

People live forever, either in heaven or Lake of Fire, as none just burn up!

 

[Martin Marprelate]

4) Jesus said the people of Matthew 23:13 were "entering the kingdom" but Martin asks "if they were genuinely seeking Him." That is like says the soldiers landing on Normandy were not seeking to defeat Hitler.

We know from the parable of the sower that there are those who hear the word 'and receive it with great joy,' but later fall away (Matthew 13:20-21), hence my caveat. Don't be deliberately obtuse.

5) Matthew 23:13 says the people were prevented from entering. It does not say that action "overruled" Christ. More adding to scripture to defend adding to scripture...

The Lord Jesus said that, 'Everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks the door must be opened' (Matthew 7:8). That has to be balanced with the text above and with Deuteronomy 4:29, but if these people had knocked, had the door opened to them and then had it slammed in their face by the scribes and Pharisees, then the scribes and Pharisees have overruled Christ QED. This is impossible, so we look at an example of this happening in John 9 and we see that the best efforts of the Jewish leaders to harass him could not keep the man from Christ.
It is worth noting that the Greek word translated 'suffer' in the KJV and 'allow' in the NKJV is aphiemi which has the literal meaning of 'send away.' 47 times in the KJV it is translated 'forgive,' and six times as 'let alone' which may be the best translation. The more usual words for 'allow' are eao (e.g. Matthew 24:43) and epitrepo (e.g. Matthew 8:21).

 

[Van]

You apparently hold to the same false doctrine you espoused years ago on the BB. You don't think someone who is condemned to Perdition is annihilated immediately, but in a period of time. That's similar to Roman Catholics who think that people spend a set period of time in Purgatory. They, of course think that after that set piece of time they will go to glory. You think that the condemned will suffer for a time and then cease to exist --which I and every Bible believing Christian denies with vigor.

Yet another change the subject post, totally off topic and designed to derail discussion of the thread topic.

 

[Van]

We know from the parable of the sower that there are those who hear the word 'and receive it with great joy,' but later fall away (Matthew 13:20-21), hence my caveat. Don't be deliberately obtuse.
The Lord Jesus said that, 'Everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks the door must be opened' (Matthew 7:8). That has to be balanced with the text above and with Deuteronomy 4:29, but if these people had knocked, had the door opened to them and then had it slammed in their face by the scribes and Pharisees, then the scribes and Pharisees have overruled Christ QED. This is impossible, so we look at an example of this happening in John 9 and we see that the best efforts of the Jewish leaders to harass him could not keep the man from Christ.
It is worth noting that the Greek word translated 'suffer' in the KJV and 'allow' in the NKJV is aphiemi which has the literal meaning of 'send away.' 47 times in the KJV it is translated 'forgive,' and six times as 'let alone' which may be the best translation. The more usual words for 'allow' are eao (e.g. Matthew 24:43) and epitrepo (e.g. Matthew 8:21).

On and on with anti-biblical assertions, no plan of God can be thwarted.

 

[Van]

Two things need to be noted, one most of the posts by others address off-topic issues and two, all those attempting to derail the discussion of bible study methods are (I believe) Calvinists. Go figure...

 

[Martin Marprelate]

On and on with anti-biblical assertions, no plan of God can be thwarted.

Exactly! At last the penny has dropped! Therefore the scribes and Pharisees could not prevent people from entering the kingdom.

 

[RipponRedeaux]

Yet another change the subject post, totally off topic and designed to derail discussion of the thread topic.

Your topic is about creating a false god. False philosophies are not based on sound biblical principles. You spout that false stuff. What you need to do is read Knowing God by J.I. Packer. Go to chapter 4 first. It's entitled The Only True God.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Two things need to be noted, one most of the posts by others address off-topic issues and two, all those attempting to derail the discussion of bible study methods are (I believe) Calvinists. Go figure...

So who brought up Matthew 23:13 in post #4?

 

[Van]

Your topic is about creating a false god. False philosophies are not based on sound biblical principles. You spout that false stuff. What you need to do is read Knowing God by J.I. Packer. Go to chapter 4 first. It's entitled The Only True God.

Yet another "you, you, you" post addressing my behavior and avoiding the topic.

Our best approach to avoid accepting false doctrine is to study scripture and accept doctrine consistent with all scripture. Ask what is the least God is saying when evaluating open ended statements. God could destroy both body and soul does not mean God does destroy body and soul, instantaneously when people are tossed into the lake of fire. No, the actual idea is only that God could if He chose, but the verse does not say He chooses to take that action. We need to read scripture carefully, prayerfully and thoughtfully.

 

[Van]

So who brought up Matthew 23:13 in post #4?

Once again, a "taint so" post addressing my veracity, rather than the fact Matthew 23:13 says people were "entering" the kingdom, thus having some "spiritual ability" and teaching the opposite of the claimed doctrine of "total spiritual inability."

What is the least that God is saying? They were on the path to the kingdom of God, thus seeking God. This can only be denied by rewriting the text and claiming it does not mean what it says...

The issue with the bogus view of Romans 3:11 is does no one ever, at any time, seek God, as do the people of Matthew 23:13? The biblical answer is some people some of the time do seek God. Thus the least God is saying in Romans 3:11 is no one seeks God at all times, we fail to seek God some of the time, therefore we are all under sin.

 

[RipponRedeaux]

God could destroy both body and soul does not mean God does destroy body and soul, instantaneously when people are tossed into the lake of fire. No, the actual idea is only that God could if He chose, but the verse does not say He chooses to take that action.

And I explained that you do not believe that souls in Hell are destroyed instantly. You believe, as of 11/19/2014 :
"God's justice is satisfied with torment of a duration fixed by the sin burden of the lost person."

That is flat out false doctrine. You need to read Luke 16:19 to 31 carefully.

 

[Van]

Our best approach to avoid accepting false doctrine is to study scripture and accept doctrine consistent with all scripture. Ask what is the least God is saying when evaluating open ended statements. God could destroy both body and soul does not mean God does destroy body and soul, instantaneously when people are tossed into the lake of fire. No, the actual idea is only that God could if He chose, but the verse does not say He chooses to take that action. We need to read scripture carefully, prayerfully and thoughtfully.