Creation of the angels?

[swordsman]

This is something that I have wondered about for some time and I am interested in any view on this. ( I would NEVER post this topic anywhere but on this forum.)

I am not going to copy scripture because I feel that many of you already know the relevant scripture on creation, the gap theory etc...
Also I can't type
Here is my view in short form..

1. There was a pre-Adamic world
2. The evil one and the angels were created on this world.
3. God destroyed it
4. Restored for life in 6 days
5. God made a canopy
6. Dinosaurs existed with man
7. No death,all vegetarians
8. Sin entered
9. Death,carnivours
10.Noah
11.God once again judged
12.no canopy
13.The fossil record we have today,the findings of green frozen vegetation toward the poles etc..

This makes sense to me, it fits. All that I have heard is the angels were created on the 2nd day.
This is not anything that I feel is worth arguing over, it really doesn't matter.But the whole Bible seems to fit everywhere to me except on the origin of the angels. What do you think?

 

[Wisdom Seeker]

I have never heard this put quite this way before. I find your views very interesting and wish that you would expound on them a little more.

I only have one question... I thought that according to scientific evidence... Dinosaurs didn't exist at the same time as man. (I'm not talking about cocroaches or sharks etc. of today...but the Jurasic Park sort)

Canopy? like I said...very interesting...please go on a little... I'm enthralled.

 

[LadyEagle]

In the book of Job it speaks of creatures as big as dinosaurs. So many believe Job was a contemporary with them.

I think Helen wrote a wonderful thread about this one time. I'll look around & see if I can find it. Or maybe Clint will pop in and dig it up for us.

Angels were in Heaven and 1/3 were cast out of Heaven onto earth with Lucifer. Not sure what book that's in. JUDE? Will have to search for you.

 

[swordsman]

WisdomSeeker,
The canopy theory is the only theory I have found that fits.
Ge 1:7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
When this happened there was a "layer" of water or ice outside the earths atomsphere, when the sunlight hit the canopy the light was diffused and this caused a warming effect over the entire earth, no polar ice caps no tropical belt but, well picture a hothouse. Scientist have worked this out. This would cause very little wind, no clouds, no rainbows
Ge 2:5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.
Ge 2:6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.

This is what the climate would do in this situation. example a Brontosausus has tiny nostrils, it could not with the O2 content we have today recieve enough O2 to survive, then you have the woolly mammoths found in Siberia that were frozen solid as they were eating green vegetation( in what is a frozen wasteland today).
When God caused the flood, the canopy fell, causing the poles to automatically freeze and making the climate we know today.
My fingers are getting tired of hunting and pecking, I hope this helps, like I said this is just a theory but it is one I believe.

 

[DocCas]

Angels were created on the first or second day of creation, probably the first. Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it."

Everything in heaven and on earth was made in the six literal days of Creation.

 

[DocCas]

Originally posted by swordsman:
Example a Brontosausus . . .

There is no such thing as a Brontosaurus. It is an Apatosaurus. The confusion arose in 1874 after a scientist, O.C. Marsh, unearthed some fossils in Wyoming, and believed that he had discovered a new genus. Later, evidence proved that the fossils were those of a dinosaur already discovered and named, the Apatosaurus. In 1974 the name Brontosaurus was formally discarded.

But I agree with the rest.

 

[swordsman]

Thanks for the info. DocCas.

 

[HankD]

This leads to another question.

I believe heaven of Genesis 1 is dual - HaShamayim. What about the 3rd heaven where God dwells?

Is it a created place?

HankD

 

[Justified]

The "Gap Theory" was a version of creation, that was developed for a bridge to gap evolution and creation, so that evolutionists and creationists could meet on a common ground.

Scofield held to this theory, which gave it some sort of a credible support, and many Christians fell for it.

The Bible, "God's Word said "Six Days", and the words in the Hebrew, lend themselves to the literal meaning.

So, 6 days it is!

 

[just-want-peace]

I was listening to Ken Ham on the radio one day & he came up with this little jewel!

He was quoting another creationists who was talking to an "evolution" professor, & the creationists asked the professor if he believed that the world "COULD" have been formed in:
6 years? Answer yes!
6 months: Answer yes!
6 seconds: Answer Yes!
6 days: Answer Absolutely not!!

I don't remember if all the "6" units are correct, but the telling fact is that any time period was possible EXCEPT the 6 days!

WONDER WHY??

 

[SBG]

If you get the chance, take a look at Creation research institute, Dr. Henry Morris has some good stuff to read.

 

[BrianT]

Originally posted by swordsman:

The canopy theory is the only theory I have found that fits.
Ge 1:7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
When this happened there was a "layer" of water or ice outside the earths atomsphere, when the sunlight hit the canopy the light was diffused and this caused a warming effect over the entire earth, no polar ice caps no tropical belt but, well picture a hothouse. Scientist have worked this out. This would cause very little wind, no clouds, no rainbows

The next verse says he called the firmament (between the waters) "heaven". And verses 14-16 say that the sun, moon, stars were created *inside* the firmament - so this outer layer of water was/is not just around the earth, but around the sun, moon and stars too. Thus the "canopy" theory is not right.

 

[BrianT]

Originally posted by Justified:

The Bible, "God's Word said "Six Days", and the words in the Hebrew, lend themselves to the literal meaning.

So, 6 days it is!

Does the Hebrew word translated "day" always mean a 24-hour period? Often it does, but not always. It simply means "time" in Gen 4:3, 26:8, 30:33, etc, "continually" in Gen 6:5, etc.

Yes, it was six "days", but which is the right definition of "day"?

Also, if a "day" is to be defined as a 24-hour period, that 24-hour period is in turn defined by the rotation of the earth in reference to the sun. Yet the sun wasn't around to act as an hour reference until the fourth "day", so how can we declare with certainty these are 24-hour periods?

 

[Clint Kritzer]

Originally posted by SheEagle911:
In the book of Job it speaks of creatures as big as dinosaurs. So many believe Job was a contemporary with them.

I think Helen wrote a wonderful thread about this one time. I'll look around & see if I can find it. Or maybe Clint will pop in and dig it up for us.

Hi Eagle -

I'm not sure which thread to which you are specifically referring. Here's a few to peruse on the subject.

Dinosaurs, dragons, behemoths and leviathans

Creation and Fossils

6000 years and Dinosaurs

Dating Fossils

My guess would be the topic "Dinosaurs, dragons, behemoths and leviathans ." Hope this helps.

 

[C.S. Murphy]

Originally posted by swordsman:
[QB]This is something that I have wondered about for some time and I am interested in any view on this. ( I would NEVER post this topic anywhere but on this forum.)

I am not going to copy scripture because I feel that many of you already know the relevant scripture on creation, the gap theory etc...
Also I can't type
Here is my view in short form..

1. There was a pre-Adamic world
2. The evil one and the angels were created on this world.
3. God destroyed it
4. Restored for life in 6 days

Wow Swordsman this is a great post, I want to do more thinking on the canopy but for now I want you to explain further what you mean by a pre adamic world. I want to read what you mean by that before I comment, but once again this is a good topic thanks
Murph

 

[Daniel David]

Swordsman, you are not advocating a biblical position.

Romans 5:12 says that by one MAN sin entered the world and death through sin.

Romans 8:22(?) says that all of creation groans waiting for its redemption.

By one man. Satan did not bring the curse upon the earth. Death did not occur until Adam sinned.

This idea of a pre-Adamic race smacks the face of reality.

Out like truth in the Dake Study Bible.

 

[DocCas]

Originally posted by BrianT:
Does the Hebrew word translated "day" always mean a 24-hour period? . . . Also, if a "day" is to be defined as a 24-hour period, that 24-hour period is in turn defined by the rotation of the earth in reference to the sun. Yet the sun wasn't around to act as an hour reference until the fourth "day", so how can we declare with certainty these are 24-hour periods?

Brian there are two problems with your post. The first is that Genesis contains the words "evening and morning" after each use of "day." Those two words were, to the Hebrew, the two parts of a literal 24 hour day.

Secondly, even though the sun was not created until the 4th day, light was created on the first day, and even if the light had no point-source a day would still have been a day, for the sidereal day would still have existed, being 23 hours 56 minutes 4 seconds long.

 

[M Wickens]

1. There was a pre-Adamic world

This has been dealt with. Death entered the world through sin. before sin, no death. The could not have been a pre-Adamic race Biblically or even Scientifically.

2. The evil one and the angels were created on this world.

Where does the Bible state this? By the evil one do you mean Satan?

3. God destroyed it

Where does the Bible say this?

4. Restored for life in 6 days

What?

There is Biblical support for the remainder of your statement but prior to these points I just see the Gap theory. Something the Christians sitting on the fence wanted so they could please the scientific world and old fashioned Christians.

 

[Optional]

Hi Murph.
My brother also believes in the pre-Adamite theory. In essence it's like this.

verse 1 - In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

Now God can't create anything that's not perfect, so the heavens and the earth are perfect.

verse 2 - And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Now if the earth was perfect; what happened to it? God must have made it void, etc. Then the 6x24 kicks in. This theory lends to many possibilities about what may have lived on earth pre-Adam.
Personally, I disagree with this interpretation and hold to a literal 6x24 creation of "everything" in 6 days. I know the word "yom" is debated, but in this context I believe it means a literal day.

[ September 06, 2002, 01:09 PM: Message edited by: Optional ]

 

[BrianT]

Originally posted by DocCas:

Brian there are two problems with your post. The first is that Genesis contains the words "evening and morning" after each use of "day." Those two words were, to the Hebrew, the two parts of a literal 24 hour day.

How do you know how far apart the evening and morning were? Without the sun, any time span would make the verse remain true.

Secondly, even though the sun was not created until the 4th day, light was created on the first day, and even if the light had no point-source a day would still have been a day, for the sidereal day would still have existed, being 23 hours 56 minutes 4 seconds long.

Hmmmm. Again I wonder how you know this, unless you were there with a stop watch.

Also, your timing of slightly less than 24 hours, now not only has the problem of no sun for a time reference for a definition of an "hour", but now also has the problem of the leap-year issue determined by the time it takes for the earth to orbit *around the sun*, which didn't even exist yet!