CREATION: TWO BASIC VIEWS

[John Wells]

Originally posted by Pastor Larry:
There is no contradiction here at all. The light can exist without the sun.

Agree! That day one light is likely the glowing mass of the universe before God "stretched out the heavens" (Job 9:8, Psa 104:2, Isa 40:22), or God's Shekina glory, the same glory and light that will illuminate the "new heaven and earth." I prefer the latter.

Rev 21:23
And the city had no need of the sun, nor of the moon, that they might shine in it, for the glory of God illuminated it, and its lamp is the Lamb.

At the beginning of creation, God created His Shekina, and in the final kingdom, bathes His people in its luxuriant, illuminating beauty forever!

 

[CompassionFlower]

Dear Alex: I can't help but reply to what you have said. Most of my life I believed that creation was not a day, but rather a day in creation was a 1000 years.

The scripture to back that "logic" up was 2 Peter 3:8. But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.

Yet if one looks at Genesis, in the creation account. "And there was evening, and there was morning --the first day" "And there was evening and morning --the second day", ect. Leaving our small minds to think of a 24 hour day, evening and morning.

I wonder in my own mind, is the bible always suppose to be "logic" or is the Lord, beyond our small minds to comprehend when it comes to some spiritual things? Than too, would other things in the bible have to be questioned, when the term day is applied. I have seen it both ways, rather enjoy the 24 hour day, 6 creative days, that shows how Awesome our God is.

In His Grace, Pam

 

[John Wells]

Originally posted by Alex:
what then, is the reasoning for these very different accounts as to what happened first AND why are there two different accounts in the same book by the same author?

The_Road_Warrior back on page one of this thread gives a very good reasoning.

http://www.christiananswers.net/q-aig/aig-c023.html

More good explanations: http://www.bibleriches.org/2002/apol/gen01and02.html

http://www.bibleriches.org/2002/apol/gen01and02.html

 

[The_Narrow_Road]

Originally posted by John Wells:

http://www.christiananswers.net/q-aig/aig-c023.html

More good explanations: http://www.bibleriches.org/2002/apol/gen01and02.html
http://www.bibleriches.org/2002/apol/gen01and02.html

It's The_Narrow_Road

 

[John Wells]

My apologies Sir. That's what I get for being in a hurry and not verifying my sources!

 

[Johnv]

...what then, is the reasoning for these very different accounts as to what happened first AND why are there two different accounts in the same book by the same author?

That's easy. Gen 1 and 2 weren't written by the same author. When looking at the writing styles in the Hebrew that was used by the KJV translators, there are two significantly different writing styles. Gen 1 and 2 were not onyl written by different people, but quite probably at different times. It's well known among historians that Genesis was the last of the Torah that was penned. The purpose of Gen 1 was to tell us who and what God is in relation to us, and why He made us. The purpose of Gen 2 was to explain our inhierent nature to separate ourselves from God. I don't see the differences between Gen 1 and 2 to be a problem, since they were written for two different purposes. Hence, to me the stories are still inerrant.

 

[Grasshopper]

Genesis 1 and 2.

http://www.reasons.org/resources/books/genesisquestion/gq9.shtml?main

 

[Alex]

Originally posted by Johnv:
...what then, is the reasoning for these very different accounts as to what happened first AND why are there two different accounts in the same book by the same author?

That's easy. Gen 1 and 2 weren't written by the same author. When looking at the writing styles in the Hebrew that was used by the KJV translators, there are two significantly different writing styles. Gen 1 and 2 were not onyl written by different people, but quite probably at different times. It's well known among historians that Genesis was the last of the Torah that was penned. The purpose of Gen 1 was to tell us who and what God is in relation to us, and why He made us. The purpose of Gen 2 was to explain our inhierent nature to separate ourselves from God. I don't see the differences between Gen 1 and 2 to be a problem, since they were written for two different purposes. Hence, to me the stories are still inerrant.

First, thanks for all the link resourses to my questions. We are all taught to believe by faith rather than what we want the scriptures to mean. This meaing that all in our Bible is to be condidered the WORD of God as "penned" by God inspired men. I have always thought that Moses was given credid for Genesis and others in the beginning time period. If this is true, again, why two accounts that do not agree with each other? Even if it were two different authors, they still should have been God inspired and held to the same sequence of events.

I will say that I have gained a lot, so far, with these discussions. I feel that we must come to a common ground when recruiting the lost or explaining various bibical questios that are often asked by other Christians. I do not believe that to have different views, in itself, is a sin, but I sincerely believe there is only ONE truth to any question. Finding this one truth becomes tough at times as we all tend to have our own "personal" opinions, which may or may not be correct. We would not need preachers, these Christian MB's, or anything except the bible if all of us knew everything.

So again, I thank all for their input and hope this thread continues a while longer. I and others have been part of this topic many times before on MB's and probably will be on many more. But I believe that each time we get a little closer to believing the same.

As a Christian while growing up, I was also very into science and actually believed that Evolution was part of the way God Created. Now, I am totaly against Evolution and have been for many years now. Starting to ramble.....

God Bless............Alex

 

[Alex]

Originally posted by CompassionFlower:
Dear Alex: I can't help but reply to what you have said. Most of my life I believed that creation was not a day, but rather a day in creation was a 1000 years.

The scripture to back that "logic" up was 2 Peter 3:8. But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.

Yet if one looks at Genesis, in the creation account. "And there was evening, and there was morning --the first day" "And there was evening and morning --the second day", ect. Leaving our small minds to think of a 24 hour day, evening and morning.

I wonder in my own mind, is the bible always suppose to be "logic" or is the Lord, beyond our small minds to comprehend when it comes to some spiritual things? Than too, would other things in the bible have to be questioned, when the term day is applied. I have seen it both ways, rather enjoy the 24 hour day, 6 creative days, that shows how Awesome our God is.

In His Grace, Pam

Thanks for the post! I had a chat MB some years back and a woman from Canadia who called herself UI, also believe this way and still does as far as I know as none could convince her she was wrong.

As to the logic oart, since Adam and Eve's sin, mankind has always went with what sounded good to them (human logic). We even more so do it today as opposed to the ancient past with so much TV, Media, etc. inticing our logic to go in the wrong direction as per the Bible and God. There is much that God has did, including the Creation, that goes agains our will with the modern knowledge we have gained. A lot doesn't make sense to our logic and this leads us away from the truth. I still have much of the old scintific "me" that still distorts my study of the Word at times. It is often hard to go against our logic. That is why it is often stated in the Bible to believe as a child and with total faith in His Word. Again, this leaves the logic of our minds to often think that because it was MAN who wrote the Bible, that they HAD to have made mistakes the same as we often do. It really is a never ending learning process and in time most of us will be on the right road. To me it is not a sin to "question", the sin comes in when we TEACH what our logic tells us when it opposes the Word of God.

Sadly, there are many religions, including our own, where there are either omissions by the clergy or direct false teachings to the new and vulnerable Christians. Many are lead to cults such as Mormonism and others.

God Bless.............Alex

 

[CompassionFlower]

Originally posted by Alex:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by CompassionFlower:
Dear Alex: I can't help but reply to what you have said. Most of my life I believed that creation was not a day, but rather a day in creation was a 1000 years.

The scripture to back that "logic" up was 2 Peter 3:8. But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.

Yet if one looks at Genesis, in the creation account. "And there was evening, and there was morning --the first day" "And there was evening and morning --the second day", ect. Leaving our small minds to think of a 24 hour day, evening and morning.

I wonder in my own mind, is the bible always suppose to be "logic" or is the Lord, beyond our small minds to comprehend when it comes to some spiritual things? Than too, would other things in the bible have to be questioned, when the term day is applied. I have seen it both ways, rather enjoy the 24 hour day, 6 creative days, that shows how Awesome our God is.

In His Grace, Pam

Thanks for the post! I had a chat MB some years back and a woman from Canadia who called herself UI, also believe this way and still does as far as I know as none could convince her she was wrong.

As to the logic oart, since Adam and Eve's sin, mankind has always went with what sounded good to them (human logic). We even more so do it today as opposed to the ancient past with so much TV, Media, etc. inticing our logic to go in the wrong direction as per the Bible and God. There is much that God has did, including the Creation, that goes agains our will with the modern knowledge we have gained. A lot doesn't make sense to our logic and this leads us away from the truth. I still have much of the old scintific "me" that still distorts my study of the Word at times. It is often hard to go against our logic. That is why it is often stated in the Bible to believe as a child and with total faith in His Word. Again, this leaves the logic of our minds to often think that because it was MAN who wrote the Bible, that they HAD to have made mistakes the same as we often do. It really is a never ending learning process and in time most of us will be on the right road. To me it is not a sin to "question", the sin comes in when we TEACH what our logic tells us when it opposes the Word of God.

Sadly, there are many religions, including our own, where there are either omissions by the clergy or direct false teachings to the new and vulnerable Christians. Many are lead to cults such as Mormonism and others.

God Bless.............Alex </font>[/QUOTE]Dear Alex:

Not use to these short ways of saying things. What is a MB or UI?

Blessings, Pam

 

[Alex]

Hello, Pam:

MB is short for Message Board or Chat board such as this one. At least that is my shortcut!

Ui was the woman's name on my post and reply MB. She was from Canadia. I don't know what become of her. Don, who posts on this MB was a past user of my MB for a long time. It finally went dead and someone refered me to this one. I think it was Don. I have been off this one for awhile due to present and past heart and diabetes problems. I hope to get more involved again. I have lived by myself for 18 years sine my divource but have a great Lady friend of 15 years who is a great Christian. I joined her Baptist Church in Hammond, La. about 14 years ago. I am now 65 years old and have been volunteering at our local hospital for 16 years. She is also a volunteer of 15 years.

God Bless...........Alex

 

[CompassionFlower]

Dear Alex:

I am sorry that you have been so ill. It is good to see you posting and feeling better. Am enjoying this MB very much. Love all the different topics. Well take care.

Blessings, Pam

 

[Alex]

I guess there is not going to be anymore comments so thanks to all for your interesting views AND for keeping it civil other than one or two posts.

I will still check for awhile for any new comments.

God Bless...........Alex

 

[Ernie Brazee]

Stopped reading this nonsense after the third page.

Why is it men will believe anyone who is a "scholar", professor of something, scientist, etc., yet when a man of God quotes the Bible the same men will debate him?

Ah! The answer lies in the very same Bible they deny:

2Corinthians 2:14But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[Grasshopper]

Why is it men will believe anyone who is a "scholar", professor of something, scientist, etc., yet when a man of God quotes the Bible the same men will debate him?

Maybe because the scientist,"scholar",and professor are also quoting the bible.

It's called disagreement on the meaning of scripture.

 

[Artimaeus]

II Peter 2:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

This verse does not say or mean that a day with the Lord IS a thousand years. Read the next vers.

9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Peter is trying to explain to these people that what they consider a long time is not a long time to the Lord. We would be wise to heed this as well. It has been 2000 years since Jesus returned to heaven, but, as far as God is concerned it has only been like a couple of days, not that long at all. He is not making a mathematical equation, he is just using an analogy.

 

[The_Narrow_Road]

The Bible is NOT a Science book, but where it does speak of scientific things, you can be assured it is 100% accurate. Just as everything was created in six LITERAL 24 hour days, so to is the rest of the Holy Bible Truth we can lay down our lives on. God is NOT a man that He should lie. Let God be true and every man a liar. Oh, His word speaks so much about His power, yet man rejects it for man's reasoning.

If you reject the six 24 hour days of Creation, then you must reject the virgin birth, the deity of Christ, Christ as the One Saviour, etc. To accept some of Scripture and not all of it is pathetic. It isn't cut-n-paste Bible knowledge.

www.AnswersinGenesis.org
www.icr.org
www.drdino.org

 

[Johnv]

If you reject the six 24 hour days of Creation, then you must reject the virgin birth, the deity of Christ, Christ as the One Saviour, etc.

That's just not so.

I reject a literal six day creation. I accept the virgin birth, the deity of Christ, and Christ as the one Savior.

 

[The_Narrow_Road]

Originally posted by Johnv:
That's just not so.
I reject a literal six day creation. I accept the virgin birth, the deity of Christ, and Christ as the one Savior.

Since you are no doubt taking the word of God out of context(you reject the literal six days of creation even though Scripture is clear on it), then how are you to know whether or not Christ was born of a virgin? Couldn't the original hebrew mean "young maiden"? By rejecting one part of the Bible, you must reject all of it. Or, who determines for you what parts of the Bible are truth and which are "stories"? So, Genesis 1 and 2 are just two different accounts for Creation and neither meant a literal day. So all the four accounts of the life of Christ in the gospels are just 4 different accounts of His life and neither meant a literal Saviour born of a virgin. So Christianity in itself is just make believe and shouldn't be taken literal because the very book that Christians hold dearly is just a story book and part of just another man pleasing religion. Thank God, I know His word is true! ALL of it, from Genesis 1 to Revelation 22. God said it, that's it, and I believe it.

 

[The_Narrow_Road]

Quote:
Q: Why is it that many Christians today don’t seem to be able to adequately defend the doctrines of Christianity as they once could? A: The major reason is because most Christians don’t believe and understand the book of Genesis. Satan has been very clever. He knows that if he can convince Christians that the book of Genesis isn’t true, then the foundations of all Christian doctrine will crumble. Ultimately the Christian structure in the nation would collapse. This is exactly what’s happened. Christians need to wake up to the fact that the meaning of sin, marriage, clothing, death, family, and in fact all doctrines of Christianity, are dependant on the events recorded in Genesis. For instance, what is sin? Why are all people sinners? The only way to answer these questions is to go to the book of Genesis, where we read about the origin of sin. The first man Adam disobeyed God—he rebelled against his Creator. This was the original sin. Since all humans are descendants of Adam, all are sinners—and sin is rebellion against God because there was a literal rebellion—in a literal Garden—by a literal man. History as recorded in Genesis, is foundational to everything a Christian believes.
End Quote: Answers In Genesis www.AnswersinGenesis.org